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       #Post#: 66561--------------------------------------------------
       Excel Parking PCN - phone payment invalid despite clear signage
       - Nottingham
   DIR By: ng1
       Date: April 10, 2025, 5:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi all. I'm having some trouble with formatting so apologies if
       the post looks a bit weird. <br><br>
       The driver entered the car park at 13:23 08/03/2025, tried to
       download the app to pay but couldn't do so because the phone
       reception was weak. The driver calls the number on the sign
       (0345 434 8008) at 13:30 which went to an automated system. The
       automated system stated the vehicle registration of the car, and
       the driver proceeded to pay for parking following the
       instructions on the phone. The driver left the car park at 15:05
       on the same day. On 21/03/2025, I, the registered keeper,
       received a PCN through the post. <br><br>
       Naively I'd already tried appealing to the company before
       seeking advice. I don't have a copy of my message to them, but
       essentially I pointed out that the driver had paid for parking
       through the number displayed on the sign in the car park. The
       driver did not take any photos of the car park because they
       didn't expect there to be any problems, but I managed to find a
       picture of the sign on Google Maps which shows the post code of
       the car park and part of the Excel logo. <br><br>
       I attached in my message (and this post) photos of the sign
       found on google maps, the call history on 13:30 on 08/03/2025,
       and a photo from the driver's banking app of the payment being
       taken at 13:31 on 08/03/2025. My appeal was of course rejected,
       and I've attached their response. I've since found a photo of an
       older sign with the same phone number, which I've attached to
       this post. I intend to appeal to the IAS, so any advice would be
       greatly appreciated :) <br><br>
       Two points from their reply stood out to me. <br>
       1) they claim that "the signage on site clearly advertise the
       available payment methods" and "[phone payment] is not an
       accepted payment method on site and has no affiliation to the
       site the vehicle parked on". <br>
       2) they "maintain that the signs on this site meet the
       requirements set by the [IPC] Code of Practice". <br><br>
       On number 1: The sign at the entrance of the car park states
       "Refer to the sign(s) within the car ark for details" and "Pay
       by phone or online only". The sign inside the car park clearly
       states, under the "how to pay" section, "to pay by phone ...
       call 0345 434 8008 and follow instructions", which the driver
       did. If the signage on site clearly advertise the available
       payment methods, then I believe any reasonable person would come
       to the conclusion that phone payments are in fact accepted at
       the car park in question through the number advertised. <br><br>
       On number 2: I'm not familiar with the IPC CoP, but as can be
       seen from the Google Maps photo, there are multiple fake/scam QR
       codes on the parking sign. Upon getting a friend to take
       pictures of the car park after reading the instruction on this
       forum, it became apparent that the sign in question has since
       been removed as of 07/04/2025. The most recent Google Maps
       review has also mentioned the lack of signage inside the car
       park. If the removal of the sign was intentional then that feels
       like an admission that the signage was misleading, and if
       unintentional then surely a car park with no instructions on how
       to pay cannot be compliant with the Code of Practice? <br><br>
       Google Maps link to the car park in question:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/xG4WUP5iHNQLPAbg8
       <br><br>
       Phone log <br>
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/EzuIbiB.jpeg
       <br>
       Phone payment (sorry for quality - the banking app doesn't allow
       screenshots) <br>
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/S69f39G.png
       <br>
       The whole car park <br>
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/88Qfe7h.jpeg
       <br>
       Current sign at the entrance (the sign with the payment methods
       used to be on the pole on the back) <br>
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/fRihnUf.jpeg
       <br>
       The sign that the driver saw <br>
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/vl9LVK5.png
       <br>
       Old sign which displays the same phone number <br>
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/eMD9y1y.png
       <br>
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 66613--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Excel Parking PCN - phone payment invalid despite clear
       signage - Nottingham
   DIR By: b789
       Date: April 11, 2025, 6:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       That receipt you've show says payment was made to APCOA,
       completely different private parking company!
       Whislt the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is fully PoFA complaint, they
       can pursue the Keeper if the drivers identity is not revealed.
       However there are some technical flaws in the NtK that breach
       the BAPiPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).
       unfortunately, Excel are an IPC member and the only way this is
       gong to be resolved is when the issue a claim in the county
       court. That is a good thing for you.
       Do you wish to fight this all the way?
       #Post#: 66668--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Excel Parking PCN - phone payment invalid despite clear
       signage - Nottingham
   DIR By: ng1
       Date: April 11, 2025, 12:03 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: b789 link ---
       >
       > That receipt you've show says payment was made to APCOA,
       completely different private parking company!
       >
       > Whislt the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is fully PoFA complaint,
       they can pursue the Keeper if the drivers identity is not
       revealed. However there are some technical flaws in the NtK that
       breach the BAPiPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice
       (PPSCoP). unfortunately, Excel are an IPC member and the only
       way this is gong to be resolved is when the issue a claim in the
       county court. That is a good thing for you.
       >
       > Do you wish to fight this all the way?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That's a good catch and I'm only seeing it now, but the fact
       that the payment was made to APCOA wouldn't have been available
       prior to making the payment. In fact, I've just tried calling
       the number again and the automated system says "welcome to
       connect cashless parking" which is also the name of the website
       on the sign, so I feel like there would have been no reason to
       suspect that it was a different company...
       I'm willing to die on this hill but realistically I don't have a
       lot of time right now. Any ideas on what the process would look
       like or what the likely outcome would be if I do choose to fight
       this?
       #Post#: 66671--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Excel Parking PCN - phone payment invalid despite clear
       signage - Nottingham
   DIR By: b789
       Date: April 11, 2025, 12:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       To be honest, this is likely to end in a court claim which will
       likely end up being struck out or discontinued.
       Have you thought about whether you may have entered the code for
       the car park wrongly? Could it be that an APCOA car park
       somewhere has a similar code that the driver possible mistyped
       in?
       #Post#: 66675--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Excel Parking PCN - phone payment invalid despite clear
       signage - Nottingham
   DIR By: ng1
       Date: April 11, 2025, 12:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       My memory is a bit hazy now as it was a month ago, but I don't
       remember having to enter a code for the car park at all. The
       system even stated the registration of the car so it was assumed
       this was automatically recognised from a camera in the car park.
       What would the timeline look like? I understand I would need to
       submit an appeal to the IAS within two weeks, but will there be
       much more to do in the short term? From June onwards I will have
       all the time in the world to fight this.
       #Post#: 66677--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Excel Parking PCN - phone payment invalid despite clear
       signage - Nottingham
   DIR By: b789
       Date: April 11, 2025, 12:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I never recommend bothering with an IAS appeal. It is a complete
       waste of time and effort. If you did nothing at all, this would
       probably lead to a Letter of Claim (LoC) in about 2-3 months and
       then drag on for another year before concluding.
       #Post#: 66685--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Excel Parking PCN - phone payment invalid despite clear
       signage - Nottingham
   DIR By: BigBazz45
       Date: April 11, 2025, 2:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Not directly relevant to the appeal, but another thing that
       leans towards the wrong service having been used is that the
       tariff gives a minimum charge of £3.00 for up to 2 hours, but
       the APCOA charge is only £2.35 - presumably including a
       convenience fee.
       I'm not entirely sure where the Driver paid for though, as I
       can't find a location with the same code on their website. It's
       definitely not in Nottingham, however.
       #Post#: 68531--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Excel Parking PCN - phone payment invalid despite clear
       signage - Nottingham
   DIR By: ng1
       Date: April 24, 2025, 5:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Sorry for disappearing - just wanted to say thank you both for
       your input. I've submitted what I had on here to the IAS purely
       because I don't want them to be able to hold anything against me
       about not following the procedure etc. I'll follow up when I do
       hear back from them.
       As for the location code - I've just called the number again and
       it still accepts the location code on the sign (2883), so who
       knows where the call is going or where the driver paid for...
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