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#Post#: 66437--------------------------------------------------
SJP - double charge of speeding and fail to give information
relating to the ID of the driver
DIR By: terrydough1
Date: April 10, 2025, 6:53 am
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Hi all,
Appreciate this is a lengthy post but want to be clear so get
some advice please!
NIP last year for speeding (3 points + £100 fine) date of
offence was a Friday, which I always work. I work on site and
due to how we park, the lads will often borrow each others cars
if parked behind each other etc. (believe everyone is fully comp
so able to drive other vehicles with permission of driver). The
speeding was at 1pm, our usual lunch time and a lad I worked
with often always went out to get everyone’s lunch. When the
letter came through I said it was him, he agreed. I therefore
filled out the paperwork, nominating him as the driver with the
details he gave to me.
Then, a month later I received a letter from the police saying
that after several checks, the driver is not listed on the
current insurance policy and therefor, if I wish to continue
with the nomination, to provide his driving licence, copy of
insurance that allowed him to drive the vehicle and a household
bill in their name, aswell as a statement of how I know him and
for what purpose did he require to use my vehicle. The letter
also advised that the file would remain in my name, and wouldn’t
be updated until the supporting documents were received.
I contacted him to obtain this info (he since moved jobs) and
kept saying he’d send over soon. He didn’t, and then in all
honesty, I completely forgot. I know this is my fault, I had a
lot going on personally and a recent diagnosis of ADHD (not that
it’s relevant but it’s relevant to me).
Then, this week I have received a SJP for the original speeding
offence plus failure to give information relating to the
identification of the driver when required. I contacted the lad
again and he said he has double checked and doesn’t think it was
him. I’ve therefore looked into this further, checked photos,
bank statements and realised that I was on annual leave that
day, and went out for the day with my partner, so it was
obviously me. The reason for the error was as I have described
above, being a Friday but also it was a road that I go down
everyday for work.
How is it best to approach this… I am obviously happy to accept
the speeding, I have no points so in the grand scheme of things
3 points and £100 fine is manageable (and I certainly would have
taken this in the very beginning to avoid it getting this far)
however, do I have a leg to stand on to contest the failure to
give information? Getting 9 points is less than ideal! My
thoughts are:
Go guilty to the speeding and not guilty to the failure to give
information, on the basis I did respond to the original NIP
within the required timeframe (and admit to the error and
confusion regarding the nominated driver)
OR
Go not guilty to both, and in mitigation say I am willing to go
guilty on the basis of the failure to give information being
dropped (and not mention originally nominating a different
driver atall).
As I said, I am happy to admit the nomination error, however in
the SJP evidence pack there is no mention of me nominating
someone else, or a copy of the letter the police sent me asking
for more info, the evidence just shows photos of the car
speeding, a copy of the original NIP addressed to the lease
company, a copy then sent to me at my home address (as they
would have nominated me) and then a final reminder letter
addressed to me. So it reads as though I just have never
responded and therefore why I have these 2 charges. Therefore,
I’m thinking am I implicating myself by even mentioning the
error in nomination. Although I’d imagine this does happen and
if you’re being honest and accepting the charge, surely this is
seen as favourable!? Appreciate the law doesn’t always work like
this though and sometimes a tactical approach is best… open to
thoughts!
#Post#: 66448--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP - double charge of speeding and fail to give information
relating to the ID of the driver
DIR By: Dave Green
Date: April 10, 2025, 8:15 am
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--- Quote from: FuzzyDuck link ---
>
> The standard advice is to plead not guilty to both charges but
say you are willing to plead guilty to the speeding, if the FtF
charge is dropped.
--- End Quote ---
Is there any possibility that stating that they will plead
guilty to the speeding charge could backfire seeing as they have
already stated that it wasn't them driving and nominated the
other driver?
#Post#: 66470--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP - double charge of speeding and fail to give information
relating to the ID of the driver
DIR By: terrydough1
Date: April 10, 2025, 9:51 am
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--- Quote from: Dave Green link ---
>
> [quote author=FuzzyDuck link=topic=5880.msg66442#msg66442
date=1744287740]
> The standard advice is to plead not guilty to both charges but
say you are willing to plead guilty to the speeding, if the FtF
charge is dropped.
--- End Quote ---
Is there any possibility that stating that they will plead
guilty to the speeding charge could backfire seeing as they have
already stated that it wasn't them driving and nominated the
other driver?
[/quote]
Thanks both, agree on letting others drive car - lesson learnt!
But this is what I mean on pleading not guilty to both, don’t
want it to backfire based on me originally nominating someone
else! And whether I should mention that or not!
#Post#: 66524--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP - double charge of speeding and fail to give information
relating to the ID of the driver
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: April 10, 2025, 2:00 pm
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Which Police Farce is this?
#Post#: 66526--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP - double charge of speeding and fail to give information
relating to the ID of the driver
DIR By: terrydough1
Date: April 10, 2025, 2:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> Which Police Farce is this?
>
--- End Quote ---
Staffordshire
#Post#: 66593--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP - double charge of speeding and fail to give information
relating to the ID of the driver
DIR By: BertB
Date: April 11, 2025, 4:38 am
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A second thread on this subject in two days. I wonder if this is
going to become a theme.
OP, is there a copy of the reply letters or your initial
nomination in the evidence pack sent with your SJPN?
If not, I wouldn't worry about the previous nomination and what
not. As you now know it was you driving, plead not guilty to
both and in the reasons for NG box write that you would be
willing to change your plea for speeding to Guilty providing
they drop the FTP charge.
I doubt anyone in receipt of your plea is going to shout
'gotcha' and produce your original nomination.
#Post#: 66595--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP - double charge of speeding and fail to give information
relating to the ID of the driver
DIR By: terrydough1
Date: April 11, 2025, 4:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BertB link ---
>
> A second thread on this subject in two days. I wonder if this
is going to become a theme.
>
> OP, is there a copy of the reply letters or your initial
nomination in the evidence pack sent with your SJPN?
>
> If not, I wouldn't worry about the previous nomination and
what not. As you now know it was you driving, plead not guilty
to both and in the reasons for NG box write that you would be
willing to change your plea for speeding to Guilty providing
they drop the FTP charge.
>
> I doubt anyone in receipt of your plea is going to shout
'gotcha' and produce your original nomination.
>
--- End Quote ---
No, no copies of the letter from the police asking for more
information, nor a copy of my original nomination. Evidence just
consists of the photos of the car, plus the original NIP letter
and a final reminder letter.
That's exactly what I was thinking...that if I don't mention the
original nomination at all, and go not guilty to both (and say
I'll plead guilty to speeding on the basis of the S.172 being
dropped) they'll reject, ask me to attend court and then
suddenly produce the original nomination and say 'gotcha'.
Equally, if I go guilty to the speeding, but not guilty to the
S.172 (on the basis of mentioning my original nomination) are
they not going to like that I did the nomination incorrectly and
try and say it's perverting the course of justice.
I'm not sure how likely either of these options are, I've never
had points let alone a SJP!
#Post#: 66958--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP - double charge of speeding and fail to give information
relating to the ID of the driver
DIR By: BertB
Date: April 14, 2025, 3:10 am
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They have supplied to you the evidence they intend to rely on
for conviction.
If you word it correctly, the plea deal is likely to be
considered and accepted at SJPN stage. It is something they
approached during Covid and seemingly haven't dropped as a
resolution where dual charged. But you need to ask for it in
your reason for pleading not guilty. While it isn't 100%, it is
likely they will accept.
If the matter was to progress to full court, there are unlikely
to be any gotcha rabbits pulled from the hat.
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