URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
  HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 66278--------------------------------------------------
       SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: km123
       Date: April 9, 2025, 6:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hello,
       I received a speeding letter (83 in a 70) back in October, I
       replied within time with a nominated driver, a friend. In
       December I then received a a further letter advising that after
       initial checks, the nominated driver is not named on the
       insurance (fully comp on own insurance) and therefore if I wish
       to proceed with the nomination to provide the nominated drivers,
       driving licence, insurance details etc. I sent this to my friend
       and asked him to send these details directly to the email
       address on the letter, to which he said he did. (appreciate it
       was my responsibility to reply directly). Anyway, 3 months has
       passed and last week I received a SJP outlining two charges, the
       original speeding plus failure to provide driver details. The
       evidence within the SJP shows the pictures of the car, plus the
       letters that have been sent, but not the 'interim letter' or any
       mention of me nominating another driver, which I therefore think
       means it has just defaulted back to me.
       I have tried to contact said friend, who is ignoring me, so I
       suspect didn't ever email the additional information and
       obviously no longer wants to admit and take those 3 points or
       fine.
       I am now at a loss as to how to reply to the SJP. Do I:
       > Plead guilty to both charges - I believe will carry 9 points
       and whilst I don't have any other points, this is less than
       ideal. However, I have no proof to show it wasn't me driving,
       the cars in my name, and the nominated driver clearly isn't
       going to own up
       > Plead guilty to the speeding but not the failure to provide -
       I have read this is the preferable thing to do as you can
       'bargain' in your mitigation so that only the original 3 points
       are given. However, how can I say this when I did initially
       respond and provide the driver details
       > Plead not guilty to both on the basis I believe it wasn't me
       that was driving and that I did initially respond
       Any advice welcome!
       #Post#: 66289--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: April 9, 2025, 7:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If you weren't driving and named the driver, why would you be
       considering pleading guilty to offences you did not commit?
       #Post#: 66293--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: km123
       Date: April 9, 2025, 7:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Because how do I prove I wasn't the driver, when the car is
       registered to me and I'm unable to obtain the additional
       information that was asked of me (and missed the deadline to do
       this). I don't want to go guilty but equally don't want to put
       myself in a worse situation, I just wanted this sorted.
       #Post#: 66297--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: April 9, 2025, 8:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Why do you think you need to prove that you weren't the driver?
       #Post#: 66298--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: km123
       Date: April 9, 2025, 8:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There are 2 charges. If I say not guilty to the speeding surely
       they won't just say ok no problem, they'll want to look into it
       further, someone needs to be charged for the speeding! The
       nominated driver hasn't responded to the additional information
       and so therefore the charge has defaulted back to me.
       #Post#: 66300--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: April 9, 2025, 8:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       That's not how the law works.
       For the speeding charge, they would need to prove that you were
       driving.
       For the s. 172 charge, they would need to prove that your
       nomination was incorrect.
       #Post#: 66301--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: BertB
       Date: April 9, 2025, 8:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Edit, as above
       #Post#: 66304--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: km123
       Date: April 9, 2025, 9:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm really confused. So what do I do? Ok I can say not guilty to
       speeding and put in the mitigation that a driver was nominated.
       But the failure to provide the drivers identity, although I did
       initially, I didn't respond to the follow up questions (on the
       basis I asked the nominated driver to provide the info) but
       assuming that won't stand, as the interim letter asking for more
       details was addressed to me.
       #Post#: 66312--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: April 9, 2025, 9:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > ...and put in the mitigation that a driver was nominated.
       --- End Quote ---
       That is not mitigation. It is a defence to the charge.
       To support the s172 charge the police will have to show that you
       did not provide the driver's details as required. You did.
       Whether or not he was insured is immaterial to that.
       There seems to be no dispute that you did respond to the s172
       request. The stance the police are taking is that the person you
       nominated was not insured to drive the car. So long as the
       details you gave for the driver are genuine you cannot be
       convicted of that offence.
       You may, of course, find yourself charged with "permitting"
       uninsured driving. That is a different matter and you have not
       been charged with it.
       For most traffic offences the police must bring charges within
       six months of the date of the offence. From memory I believe
       there is an exception provided for the "no insurance" offence in
       that the police must begin proceedings within six months of
       discovering evidence to support the charge (subject to an
       overall maximum of three years). Since they said in December
       they believed the driver you nominated was not covered, they
       have until June to bring those charges (assuming my grasp of the
       rule for charging for no insurance is correct).
       I take it the details you provided for your friend are genuine,
       complete and correct?
       #Post#: 66316--------------------------------------------------
       Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
   DIR By: disgruntchelt
       Date: April 9, 2025, 10:18 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If your friend hasn’t been sent similar charges, they are likely
       in the clear for the speeding offence and (soon for the s172
       assuming they didn’t reply).
       As such you can reassure them the police have cocked up and they
       are now in the clear.   you can ask them to help you out now by
       providing a copy of their insurance documents.
       Alternatively, if you know their registration number you could
       find out who it was insured with and ask the company for a copy
       of their  policy details. / confirmation your friend had driving
       other cars on their insurance policy.
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 2
   DIR Next Page