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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 66278--------------------------------------------------
SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: km123
Date: April 9, 2025, 6:48 am
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Hello,
I received a speeding letter (83 in a 70) back in October, I
replied within time with a nominated driver, a friend. In
December I then received a a further letter advising that after
initial checks, the nominated driver is not named on the
insurance (fully comp on own insurance) and therefore if I wish
to proceed with the nomination to provide the nominated drivers,
driving licence, insurance details etc. I sent this to my friend
and asked him to send these details directly to the email
address on the letter, to which he said he did. (appreciate it
was my responsibility to reply directly). Anyway, 3 months has
passed and last week I received a SJP outlining two charges, the
original speeding plus failure to provide driver details. The
evidence within the SJP shows the pictures of the car, plus the
letters that have been sent, but not the 'interim letter' or any
mention of me nominating another driver, which I therefore think
means it has just defaulted back to me.
I have tried to contact said friend, who is ignoring me, so I
suspect didn't ever email the additional information and
obviously no longer wants to admit and take those 3 points or
fine.
I am now at a loss as to how to reply to the SJP. Do I:
> Plead guilty to both charges - I believe will carry 9 points
and whilst I don't have any other points, this is less than
ideal. However, I have no proof to show it wasn't me driving,
the cars in my name, and the nominated driver clearly isn't
going to own up
> Plead guilty to the speeding but not the failure to provide -
I have read this is the preferable thing to do as you can
'bargain' in your mitigation so that only the original 3 points
are given. However, how can I say this when I did initially
respond and provide the driver details
> Plead not guilty to both on the basis I believe it wasn't me
that was driving and that I did initially respond
Any advice welcome!
#Post#: 66289--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: April 9, 2025, 7:03 am
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If you weren't driving and named the driver, why would you be
considering pleading guilty to offences you did not commit?
#Post#: 66293--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: km123
Date: April 9, 2025, 7:48 am
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Because how do I prove I wasn't the driver, when the car is
registered to me and I'm unable to obtain the additional
information that was asked of me (and missed the deadline to do
this). I don't want to go guilty but equally don't want to put
myself in a worse situation, I just wanted this sorted.
#Post#: 66297--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: April 9, 2025, 8:09 am
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Why do you think you need to prove that you weren't the driver?
#Post#: 66298--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: km123
Date: April 9, 2025, 8:15 am
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There are 2 charges. If I say not guilty to the speeding surely
they won't just say ok no problem, they'll want to look into it
further, someone needs to be charged for the speeding! The
nominated driver hasn't responded to the additional information
and so therefore the charge has defaulted back to me.
#Post#: 66300--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: April 9, 2025, 8:48 am
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That's not how the law works.
For the speeding charge, they would need to prove that you were
driving.
For the s. 172 charge, they would need to prove that your
nomination was incorrect.
#Post#: 66301--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: BertB
Date: April 9, 2025, 8:49 am
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Edit, as above
#Post#: 66304--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: km123
Date: April 9, 2025, 9:01 am
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I'm really confused. So what do I do? Ok I can say not guilty to
speeding and put in the mitigation that a driver was nominated.
But the failure to provide the drivers identity, although I did
initially, I didn't respond to the follow up questions (on the
basis I asked the nominated driver to provide the info) but
assuming that won't stand, as the interim letter asking for more
details was addressed to me.
#Post#: 66312--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: April 9, 2025, 9:40 am
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--- Quote ---
> ...and put in the mitigation that a driver was nominated.
--- End Quote ---
That is not mitigation. It is a defence to the charge.
To support the s172 charge the police will have to show that you
did not provide the driver's details as required. You did.
Whether or not he was insured is immaterial to that.
There seems to be no dispute that you did respond to the s172
request. The stance the police are taking is that the person you
nominated was not insured to drive the car. So long as the
details you gave for the driver are genuine you cannot be
convicted of that offence.
You may, of course, find yourself charged with "permitting"
uninsured driving. That is a different matter and you have not
been charged with it.
For most traffic offences the police must bring charges within
six months of the date of the offence. From memory I believe
there is an exception provided for the "no insurance" offence in
that the police must begin proceedings within six months of
discovering evidence to support the charge (subject to an
overall maximum of three years). Since they said in December
they believed the driver you nominated was not covered, they
have until June to bring those charges (assuming my grasp of the
rule for charging for no insurance is correct).
I take it the details you provided for your friend are genuine,
complete and correct?
#Post#: 66316--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for speeding and failure to provide driver details
DIR By: disgruntchelt
Date: April 9, 2025, 10:18 am
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If your friend hasn’t been sent similar charges, they are likely
in the clear for the speeding offence and (soon for the s172
assuming they didn’t reply).
As such you can reassure them the police have cocked up and they
are now in the clear. you can ask them to help you out now by
providing a copy of their insurance documents.
Alternatively, if you know their registration number you could
find out who it was insured with and ask the company for a copy
of their policy details. / confirmation your friend had driving
other cars on their insurance policy.
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