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#Post#: 5784--------------------------------------------------
County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: Paul@amv-uk.com
Date: September 22, 2023, 11:13 am
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Hi all I have already posted this on the pepipoo site and it was
suggested that I post here, is this ok please ?
#Post#: 5792--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 22, 2023, 11:43 am
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Cannot see your post on PPP - link, please.
#Post#: 5793--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: Paul@amv-uk.com
Date: September 22, 2023, 11:45 am
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It's posted under user VICTORY23
#Post#: 5794--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: Paul@amv-uk.com
Date: September 22, 2023, 11:47 am
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I will copy and paste the whole post in the morning as its on a
computer and this is from my phone
#Post#: 5797--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: Paul@amv-uk.com
Date: September 22, 2023, 11:55 am
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Hi everyone I have a problem arising from TFL and the
Northampton Count Court that I am sure someone has already
experienced. With absolutley no prior notice or warning I had
bailiff's turn up at my house yesterday. I was not at home but I
spoke to the bailiff n the phone and he supplied me basic
details of the "court order" this was the PCN ref, vehicle reg,
location and date. When I checked these out sure enough it was
for a PCN on a vehicle I own but issued from a CCTV image. This
was on 18 April 2023 and I definitley did not receive a PCN nor
did I receive any further reminders, charge notices etc. During
this time I have received post from the Royal Mail. The vehicle
was registered to me with the correct name and address and I
checked this with TFL. Further to this I did not receive any
letters from Northampton court not one. Also the bailiff claims
to have sent me a letter dated 21 August 2023 that they charged
me £75 for and that also never arrived. I am at a complete loss
to explain this situation and none of the organizations involved
are interested in helping. It is unfortunately too late to avoid
paying this judgement but I wanted to understand how this can be
legal. If I had a chance to pay the original fine it would have
been £80 but through no fault of mine it rose to £560. Please
let me know your thoughts.
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nextdoor
post Yesterday, 16:23
Post #2
Member
Group: Members
Posts: 514
Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Member No.: 89,788
For the reasons explained at
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/a-new-beg.../msg985/#msg985
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1788210
and
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150840
I would suggest you start a new thread on
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-no...tfl-and-so-on)/
with guidance on posting here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-no...cil-tfl-dartme/
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Incandescent
post Yesterday, 18:43
Post #4
Member
Group: Members
Posts: 20,108
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455
It is not too late to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory
Declaration that you did not receive the PCN. Despite paying the
bailiffs you can still submit this, and if it is granted, the
liability returns to the original PCN amount.
QUOTE
The vehicle was registered to me with the correct name and
address and I checked this with TFL. Further to this I did not
receive any letters from Northampton court not one.
But was the vehicle name and address correct on the
contravention date ? Time and time again we get cases like yours
and it almost always ends up that the name and address was not
correct or out-of-date on or around the offence date. So please
tell us what was checked with TfL. Please also note that the
Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton don't send out
anything. The statutory enforcement documents are all sent out
by TfL. So, just so you know, you have failed to receive: -
- PCN
- Charge Certificate (adds 50% to the penalty)
- Order for Recovery (adds £9 to the CC penalty)
These are issued over a period of several weeks staring from a
few days after the contravention date.
Even if you pay the bailiff, you can still submit an Out-of-Time
Statutory Declaration that you did not receive the PCN. HOwever,
you must also say why you think the PCN was not received.
So, is there anything peculiar about your mail arrangements ?
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VICTORY23
post Today, 08:49
Post #5
New Member
Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: Yesterday, 15:23
Member No.: 121,044
Thank you so much for your reply and your understanding of my
situation. The vehicle was definitely registered to me from
January 2021 to August 2023. I was not the driver it was my son
and he would have paid the original PCN without question had we
known about it. As I have not received any letters at all from
TFL I cant be sure what address they had for me. The bailiff
however did have my address and the details he gave me all
checked out.
I am aware of the Statutory Declaration form PE3 as I have had
to do this a month ago when I received an "order for the
recovery of unpaid penalty charge" this one did actually come in
the post although I had not had anything prior to this. I went
to the local court and swore an oath and emailed and I am
awaiting the outcome.
I know it is possible to download these PE3 forms from the
internet but I did not realise that I can still send it at this
stage so thank you for the advice there. As for my address and
my post I have lived at my same address for over 30 years and
whilst the post is not so good lately I cant believe that I
failed to receive possibly 6 letters regarding this PCN and
maybe another 4 or 5 on the previous PCN.
Is this perhaps a way to maximise the revenue for TFL or do they
have a serious mail issue ?
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Incandescent
post Today, 10:20
Post #6
Member
Group: Members
Posts: 20,108
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455
So....
Contravention date - 23rd April 2023
Car registered with yourself - January 2021 - August 2023
However, you have lived at the address for 30 years. So when the
car was purchased, who entered the V5 details, you or a dealer ?
What you need to do is find out from TfL what address they used
to send out the statutory documents. It is possible they have
made a transcription error when entering the name and address
received from DVLA into their system. You also need to find out
from DVLA what address was recorded for the vehicle on or around
the contravention date.
During your time with the car, did you always receive the VED
reminders from DVLA ? ALmost all cases we see like yours
eventually come down to an error in the address on the V5.
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VICTORY23
post Today, 11:16
Post #7
New Member
Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: Yesterday, 15:23
Member No.: 121,044
Owned car between January 2021 and August 2023. The V5 was in my
name and the correct address. Tfl confirmed that they had my
correct address over the telephone and the bailiff obviously did
as well. The V5 has been in my name from January 2021 to August
2023 without any doubt. I have been to the county court this
morning and sworn an oath with a PE3 that I have now emailed. It
is just not possible to prove that the letters did not arrive
but TFL cant prove that they were sent so what will happen ?
You say you received an Order for Recovery about a month ago.
You submitted the Statutory Declaration. As yet there is no
response from the TEC?
Did you get an email acknowledgement that an SD had been
submitted.
Are you certain that this OfR relates to a different PCN than
the one discussed in this topic?
Who was the enforcement authority on that OfR? Also TFL?
Hi regarding this current PCN I had the visit from the bailiff 2
days ago and I paid their fee yesterday. I never received and
paperwork at all for this PCN.
I did receive a judgement from the court a few weeks ago for a
separate PCN which prior to the order for recovery letter I had
not had anything. This on came with a PE3 that I completed and
took to the county court for the oath. I emailed it the same day
and I am awaiting a response.
Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for your continuing
help.
#Post#: 5806--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: NightSoul
Date: September 22, 2023, 1:00 pm
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Have a look at your V5 address. The V5 for the contravention
vehicle.
They always send correspondence to the V5 address of the
contravention vehicle.
If the V5 address is not current or has a different postcode,
then that is why you know nothing about the PCN's until bailiffs
found you.
You need to do this check before filing a PE2&3 at the Traffic
Enforcement Centre.
From your post subject, "county court judgment". Statutory PCN's
dont carry a judgment on your credit file.
#Post#: 5814--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: Neil B
Date: September 22, 2023, 1:59 pm
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You absolutely should NOT submit forms PE2 and PE3 until we have
firmly established what has gone wrong.
Check the V5 as asked and, when doing so, look at every single
detail. Report your findings back here.
Phone TEC and ask (just this) what was the original address the
debt was registerec to? -- and compare it to yours.
Do you live in a block of flats for instance and is the address
complete?
-----------
I'm very worried about your recent statutory declaration a month
ago; you must have heard something by now and, if not, why have
you not phoned to check on progress?
What was the address you e-mailed it to? and did you receive an
auto-acknowledgement (normally within a few minutes)?
#Post#: 5853--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: Paul@amv-uk.com
Date: September 23, 2023, 3:35 am
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"You absolutely should NOT submit forms PE2 and PE3 until we
have firmly established what has gone wrong.
Check the V5 as asked and, when doing so, look at every single
detail. Report your findings back here.
Phone TEC and ask (just this) what was the original address the
debt was registerec to? -- and compare it to yours.
Do you live in a block of flats for instance and is the address
complete?
-----------
I'm very worried about your recent statutory declaration a month
ago; you must have heard something by now and, if not, why have
you not phoned to check on progress?
What was the address you e-mailed it to? and did you receive an
auto-acknowledgement (normally within a few minutes)?"
Thank you for the reply and I have checked with TFL and checked
the V5 and there is no problem with the address. The problem can
only be either TFL are not ensuring their mail is sent and
delivered or the post office are not delivering TFL's mail to me
which is pretty unlikely. I have already sent the PE3 form for
the latest court jusgement and I only have the defence that I
have never received any letters. This I obviously cant prove as
neither can TFL prove I did receive the letters. As I have sworn
on oath that I did not receive the letters surley this will be
enough ?
#Post#: 5868--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: Neil B
Date: September 23, 2023, 5:59 am
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But you've ignored much of what I've said?
You haven't done the address check with TEC and closed now until
Monday.
You haven't answered where you sent the more recent PE3 or asked
TEC what the outcome was.
Something else you can do as a matter of routine is to look at
the case histories for each pcn on the TfL website. Do that and
paste them here.
#Post#: 5882--------------------------------------------------
Re: County court judgement but no letters - Bailiff
DIR By: Paul@amv-uk.com
Date: September 23, 2023, 9:13 am
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I assume TEC stands for traffic enforcement center.
I did try to contact them yesterday was on hold for 28 mins and
had to hang up.
I will email the TEC on Monday and ask what addresses they hold
relating to both the PCN's but the first one they sent I did
receive that was the beginning of September so they had my
correct address for that one. The most recent PE3 I downloaded a
blank form from the Gov website the went to the county court,
had it witnessed and emailed it to TEC.
I have looked up the PCN's and they seem to be correct but I can
only scan and copy from my work which would be Monday
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