DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 65537--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: czgm1h
Date: April 3, 2025, 8:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Got response via email from CDER group to my inquiry:
--- Quote ---
>
> We refer to your recent enquiry.
>
> Please be aware that the Compliance Fee of £75.00 is a
statutory fee charged in accordance with The Taking Control of
Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 and is applied upon the
commencement of our compliance period – this is when our Notice
of Enforcement is issued.
>
> As a result of the above, we are unable to refund this.
>
--- End Quote ---
Something tells me to respond again because it feels like they
are trying to dismiss my case
#Post#: 69282--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: czgm1h
Date: April 29, 2025, 3:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to post little bit of an update, on 9th April 2025 - I
have submitted my PE2 and PE3 forms to TEC explaining I have
never received any correspondence. This has been witnessed and
signed as per suggestions here. Thank you very much, I didn't
even know where to start if it wasn't for guides and comments
here. I also submitted a separate PE3 for another contravention
since I confirmed its been registered as debt.
I also did try to complain to enforcement agent itself about not
giving enough notice and asked for a refund, yet they rejected
all my claims so I forwarded everything to Ombudsman (waiting
time will take couple of weeks).
Today (29 April 2025) I received 'Reasons for Opposing Out of
time application' (PE2). It makes my blood boil. It feels like
the council tries to make you guilty without any evidence and
you need to prove you are innocent. Anyway here is their
response for anyone wanting a read:
--- Quote ---
>
> Reasons for Opposing Out of time application
>
> The Local Authority request that the Traffic Enforcement
Centre do not accept this late Statuory Declaration for the
following reasons:
>
> The Penalty Charge Notice was issued to vehicle index [VRN] on
the 04/10/2024 at 19:03 for Performing a prohibited turn (no
right turn) on <ADDRESS>.
>
> In accordance with the London Local Authorities Act 1990 to
2003, the Authority then made an application for the name and
address of the registered keeper at the time of the
contravention to the DVLA. The DVLA returned the keeper's
details as [MY FULL NAME] of [MY ADDRESS.
>
> On 16/10/2024 a Penalty Charge Notice was served via post to
the DVLA registered keeper of the enclosing photographic proof.
The Penalty Charge Notice gave the option to pay the reduce rate
within the 14 days period beginning with the date the notice was
serviced or make formal representations within 28 days.
Representations/payment was not received, therefore a Charge
Certificate was issued 25/11/2024 increasing the outstanding
amount by 50%.
>
> As the Penalty remained unpaid the case was registered as an
unpaid debt with the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northamption
County Court and the Respondent was served with an Order for
Recovery and Statuory Declaration (PE3) on the 17/12/2024.
>
> On the 26/03/2025 a Warrant of Control was authorised and
passed to the duly appointed Enforcement Agents for the
enforcement in accordance with the Enforcement of Road Traffic
Debts (Certificated Bailiff) Regulations 1993.
>
> The charge was paid in full to the Council Enforcement Agency
on the (02/04/2025).
>
> The application states that the Respondent did not receive the
Penalty Charge Notice. Although, we note the Respondent's
comments, the Local Authority's correspondence records show that
the Penalty Charge Notice was issued to the Respondent at the
address details provided by DVLA, given above.
>
> It it responsibility of the registered keeper to keep track of
all the mail and make necessary arrangements to receive the post
to an appropriate address while the details are being updated by
DVLA. Haringey Council cannot be responsible for the non-receipt
of the post.
>
> All the above Statuory Notices were served by first class post
and to the address provided by the DVLA in Swansea. Unless the
Notices are returned in post by Royal Mail they are deemed to
have been served. The Local Authority advises that no notices
were returned in this case.
>
> The Council considers that the application to file the
Statuory Declaration out of time should be refused.
>
> Yours Sincerely
>
--- End Quote ---
I assume I don't have to take any further actions for now? This
will now be up to TEC to consider both sides, however if it
comes to TEC siding with the Council - is there anything else I
can do? I will fight the Council even if it costs me extra as I
really do not like what has happened here, I just want to know
what options would be available to me, if anyone have further
ideas, please comment - thank you :)
#Post#: 69286--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 29, 2025, 3:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The PE2 and PE3 do not explain 'I have never received any
correspondence.'.
One gives reasons, the other gives the simple grounds.
TEC only know what's told to them. Ditto the authority. So,
before getting all het up about the authority's submission,
let's see yours in detail.
#Post#: 69292--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: czgm1h
Date: April 29, 2025, 4:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> The PE2 and PE3 do not explain 'I have never received any
correspondence.'.
>
> One gives reasons, the other gives the simple grounds.
>
> TEC only know what's told to them. Ditto the authority. So,
before getting all het up about the authority's submission,
let's see yours in detail.
>
--- End Quote ---
PE3 form I ticked I never received PCN.
PE2 form submission:
--- Quote ---
>
> I first became aware of this Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) on
1st April 2025, when I received a Notice of Enforcement from
CDER Group by post. Prior to this, I had received no previous
correspondence from the London Borough of Haringey regarding
this PCN.
>
> I moved to [MY ADDRESS] on 1st September 2024 and immediately
updated my V5C logbook to reflect my new address. My V5C clearly
shows the update date as "14 09 24", confirming that my address
was correctly recorded with the DVLA well before this PCN was
issued. Despite this, I never received any PCN, charge
certificate, or order for recovery at my new address.
>
> I have a history of promptly paying previous PCNs at my old
addresses. However, in this instance, I was completely unaware
of the original PCN due to a failure in the notification
process. This situation has resulted in enforcement action being
taken against me without giving me the opportunity to respond in
time.
>
> As I had no knowledge of the original PCN until enforcement
action had begun, I respectfully request that my Statutory
Declaration be accepted out of time so that I may address this
matter fairly.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 69305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: April 29, 2025, 5:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So did you find out why Haringay didn't get the changed V5C
address given the contravention was after the logbook change?
#Post#: 69314--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: April 30, 2025, 2:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> So did you find out why Haringay didn't get the changed V5C
address given the contravention was after the logbook change?
>
--- End Quote ---
+1
and
Why does the "Date of last V5C (logbook) issued" now say "20
April 2025"? Have you changed address again or sold the vehicle?
#Post#: 69316--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: czgm1h
Date: April 30, 2025, 2:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yup the vehicle was sold recently. I can't deal with so much
expenses unfortunately.
As to this: `So did you find out why Haringay didn't get the
changed V5C address given the contravention was after the
logbook change?`
I think they did have updated address. Why? Because in their
opposing letter, it clearly states my address when they
requested the details from DVLA.
Okay, for a second let's assume that what Council is saying is
true. They have sent the stuff to my address, but I never
received anything. Both versions are true. In this case I could
think of one thing that has happened. The postman has delivered
all my correspondence to wrong address - why do I suspect this?
It is because My address has range of numbers in them, e.g. [MY
House Number] [xxx-xxx] [Road Name]. That is one possibility
perhaps?
Another update, which is unrelated to initial PCN, its the other
one - I received my first 'Order for Recovery of unpaid penalty
charge' for ZN14587347. Which is quite late?? This I received on
24 April 2025, which states I need to comply with the order by
'12/05/2025', and date of contravention is 31/10/2024 (I already
filled the PE3 form/witness and signed it and submitted it
myself, on 23rd April 2025 (1 day before the order of recovery
arrived))
#Post#: 69317--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: czgm1h
Date: April 30, 2025, 3:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
added photo attachment
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 69319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: April 30, 2025, 3:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The OfR (Notice of Debt Registration) for PCN ZN14587347 was
supposedly issued on Thursday the 17th April. So absent any
evidence to indicate it wasn't posted on the 17th it is deemed
served on the second working day after posting. So it should
have arrived with you not later than Monday the 21st April.
PCN ZN14587347 is one of the two PCNs annotated as below. The
meaning of "On Hold DMC RULE" is as yet unexplained. That may or
may not be relevant.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> PCNs ZN14587347 and ZN1484088A which have Charge Certificates
and sit at £195 each have status on the Haringey website of "On
Hold: DMC RULE - Awaiting outcome on registered PCN
(04/02/2025)"
>
> The "registered PCN" is very likely the PCN that went to the
Bailiff but what does "On Hold: DMC RULE" mean? To me it
certainly implies that Haringey know there is an issue with the
service of documents?
>
--- End Quote ---
Anyway you now need to submit the PE3 Statutory Declaration to
the Traffic Enforcement Centre.
Tick the box, one box only, to the effect that you did not
receive the PCN. The form needs to be witnessed. This can be
done FOC at any convenient County Court. Phone first and make an
appointment if required. Tell them you need to have a Statutory
Declaration witnessed. Don't sign and date the form until you're
in front of the witness.
Else it can be witnessed for a fee by a Solicitor or a
Magistrate. Circa £8-£10.
Scan the completed SD to a PDF doc or a JPEG photo and attach it
to an email to the TEC. Subject line Statutory Declaration - PCN
ZN14587347 - LB Haringey
#Post#: 69324--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
DIR By: czgm1h
Date: April 30, 2025, 3:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> The OfR (Notice of Debt Registration) for PCN ZN14587347 was
supposedly issued on Thursday the 17th April. So absent any
evidence to indicate it wasn't posted on the 17th it is deemed
served on the second working day after posting. So it should
have arrived with you not later than Monday the 21st April.
>
--- End Quote ---
100% certain that it arrived on 24 April 2025. This is because I
was going out on 23rd April 2025 to get my PE3 form signed and
there was no letters.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> PCN ZN14587347 is one of the two PCNs annotated as below. The
meaning of "On hold DMC RULE" is as yet unexplained. That may or
may not be relevant.
>
--- End Quote ---
I will give the Council a call after 10am (non emergency hours)
and see if they can give me some clarification as to what this
status means and update here.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Anyway you now need to submit the PE3 Statutory Declaration to
the Treffic Enforcement Centre.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hello, sorry perhaps you missed this but as I already said:
(I already filled the PE3 form/witness and signed it and
submitted it myself, on 23rd April 2025 (1 day before the order
of recovery arrived)) - This was for ZN14587347.
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 7
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page