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   DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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       #Post#: 65593--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: April 3, 2025, 4:35 pm
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       How certain are you that you were driving?
       #Post#: 65594--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: helpneeded1
       Date: April 3, 2025, 4:37 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
       >
       > How certain are you that you were driving?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Only 60/40 or maybe 70/30.
       #Post#: 65595--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: helpneeded1
       Date: April 3, 2025, 4:39 pm
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       --- Quote from: JustLoveCars link ---
       >
       > [quote author=helpneeded1 link=topic=5756.msg65177#msg65177
       date=1743518764]
       >
       > The usual way is to see the prosecutor on the day to offer to
       plead guilty to the speeding if the FtF is dropped - they will
       often accept.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       So would this method only work if my wife were to plead
       non-guilty to both charges initially, in order to force a court
       hearing? And then meet the prosecutor on the day itself?
       What if the court hearing is done online instead? How would one
       be able to meet the prosecutor beforehand? I have read that they
       started using virtual court hearings during COVID-19 times.
       Also, in case the court hearing is in person, is the prosecutor
       always easily accessible prior to the hearing? Are there
       occasions when they cannot be found? What would we do then?
       What about sending an email to the prosecutor in advance to make
       the deal? Would that be advisable?
       #Post#: 65597--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: April 3, 2025, 4:55 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > What if the court hearing is done online instead?
       --- End Quote ---
       
       In normal circumstances a NG plea will require  court
       attendance.
       Before the pandemic it was necessary to attend court to
       undertake this deal and speak to the prosecutor (the agreement
       of the prosecutor is required as the court cannot accept it
       without that agreement). However, during the pandemic most
       courts accepted a written request to do the deal. Local police
       prosecutors made an agreement with their courts that the
       magistrates’ legal advisors could accept the deal. In some areas
       this arrangement has carried on.
       We have heard some reports of people offering to do the "deal"
       when returning their SJPN with NG pleas to both charges and the
       deal being done without an attendance being required..
       #Post#: 65777--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: helpneeded1
       Date: April 5, 2025, 8:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you.
       So, in order to have the conviction for the speeding offence
       only, would it be best to plead non-guilty to both offences on
       the form, and write a note to say she will change the non-guilty
       plea to the speeding offence in return for the second charge
       being dropped?
       If so, how can a non-guilty plea for the speeding, once
       submitted on the form, be changed to a guity plea?
       #Post#: 65778--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: April 5, 2025, 9:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       write a note to say she will change the non-guilty plea to the
       speeding offence in return for the second charge being dropped
       #Post#: 65782--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: April 5, 2025, 9:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Yes, that is the way to do it.
       This arrangement is well known to all court users (prosecutors,
       magistrates and their legal advisors). It is almost always
       successful. Since this site has been running there have been no
       reports of refusals and this site's predecessor (Pepipoo) had
       knowledge of only one (both, as far as I am aware).
       I think the police and their prosecutors recognise that very
       often the "FtP" charge comes about due to administrative
       difficulties (lost or delayed post, unnotified change of
       address, drivers' misunderstanding of their responsibilities,
       etc). They also understand that the consequences of  conviction
       for that offence are usually far more profound than for
       speeding.
       So long as they are happy that no advantage is being sought
       (say, if the actual driver was trying to avoid a "totting up"
       disqualification) they are content to accept a guilty plea to
       the underlying offence and will drop the FtP charge (which, if
       continued, might often involve them in a trial).
       The "leverage" that the driver has is that without  guilty plea,
       a conviction for speeding cannot succeed (the police have no
       evidence to prove who was driving). An offer to plead guilty
       secures that conviction with little or no effort and in exchange
       all the police must do is drop the other charge. he willingness
       of prosecutors to undertake this agreement is illustrated by the
       fact that, in circumstances like your wife faces, they almost
       always raise both charges (speeding and FtP) even though they do
       not know who was driving and the speeding charge cannot possibly
       succeed without a guilty plea.
       #Post#: 65785--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: helpneeded1
       Date: April 5, 2025, 10:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you, all. We will do that. You have all been so very
       helpful and we cannot thank you enough for your generous input!
       #Post#: 65810--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: scienceguy142
       Date: April 5, 2025, 4:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The way I see it, is that your wife filled out the NTP without
       consulting you, believing she couldn't identify the driver.
       When you found out about it, you can confirm you were actually
       the driver?
       I'd explain this to the prosecution on the day, and wish you
       luck.
       #Post#: 65811--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
       on the driver
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: April 5, 2025, 4:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > I'd explain this to the prosecution on the day, and wish you
       luck.
       --- End Quote ---
       I don't think that is quite what the OP has in mind.
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