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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 65593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: April 3, 2025, 4:35 pm
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How certain are you that you were driving?
#Post#: 65594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: helpneeded1
Date: April 3, 2025, 4:37 pm
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> How certain are you that you were driving?
>
--- End Quote ---
Only 60/40 or maybe 70/30.
#Post#: 65595--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: helpneeded1
Date: April 3, 2025, 4:39 pm
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--- Quote from: JustLoveCars link ---
>
> [quote author=helpneeded1 link=topic=5756.msg65177#msg65177
date=1743518764]
>
> The usual way is to see the prosecutor on the day to offer to
plead guilty to the speeding if the FtF is dropped - they will
often accept.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
So would this method only work if my wife were to plead
non-guilty to both charges initially, in order to force a court
hearing? And then meet the prosecutor on the day itself?
What if the court hearing is done online instead? How would one
be able to meet the prosecutor beforehand? I have read that they
started using virtual court hearings during COVID-19 times.
Also, in case the court hearing is in person, is the prosecutor
always easily accessible prior to the hearing? Are there
occasions when they cannot be found? What would we do then?
What about sending an email to the prosecutor in advance to make
the deal? Would that be advisable?
#Post#: 65597--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: April 3, 2025, 4:55 pm
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--- Quote ---
> What if the court hearing is done online instead?
--- End Quote ---
In normal circumstances a NG plea will require court
attendance.
Before the pandemic it was necessary to attend court to
undertake this deal and speak to the prosecutor (the agreement
of the prosecutor is required as the court cannot accept it
without that agreement). However, during the pandemic most
courts accepted a written request to do the deal. Local police
prosecutors made an agreement with their courts that the
magistrates’ legal advisors could accept the deal. In some areas
this arrangement has carried on.
We have heard some reports of people offering to do the "deal"
when returning their SJPN with NG pleas to both charges and the
deal being done without an attendance being required..
#Post#: 65777--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: helpneeded1
Date: April 5, 2025, 8:57 am
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Thank you.
So, in order to have the conviction for the speeding offence
only, would it be best to plead non-guilty to both offences on
the form, and write a note to say she will change the non-guilty
plea to the speeding offence in return for the second charge
being dropped?
If so, how can a non-guilty plea for the speeding, once
submitted on the form, be changed to a guity plea?
#Post#: 65778--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: April 5, 2025, 9:02 am
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write a note to say she will change the non-guilty plea to the
speeding offence in return for the second charge being dropped
#Post#: 65782--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: April 5, 2025, 9:23 am
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Yes, that is the way to do it.
This arrangement is well known to all court users (prosecutors,
magistrates and their legal advisors). It is almost always
successful. Since this site has been running there have been no
reports of refusals and this site's predecessor (Pepipoo) had
knowledge of only one (both, as far as I am aware).
I think the police and their prosecutors recognise that very
often the "FtP" charge comes about due to administrative
difficulties (lost or delayed post, unnotified change of
address, drivers' misunderstanding of their responsibilities,
etc). They also understand that the consequences of conviction
for that offence are usually far more profound than for
speeding.
So long as they are happy that no advantage is being sought
(say, if the actual driver was trying to avoid a "totting up"
disqualification) they are content to accept a guilty plea to
the underlying offence and will drop the FtP charge (which, if
continued, might often involve them in a trial).
The "leverage" that the driver has is that without guilty plea,
a conviction for speeding cannot succeed (the police have no
evidence to prove who was driving). An offer to plead guilty
secures that conviction with little or no effort and in exchange
all the police must do is drop the other charge. he willingness
of prosecutors to undertake this agreement is illustrated by the
fact that, in circumstances like your wife faces, they almost
always raise both charges (speeding and FtP) even though they do
not know who was driving and the speeding charge cannot possibly
succeed without a guilty plea.
#Post#: 65785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: helpneeded1
Date: April 5, 2025, 10:50 am
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Thank you, all. We will do that. You have all been so very
helpful and we cannot thank you enough for your generous input!
#Post#: 65810--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: scienceguy142
Date: April 5, 2025, 4:08 pm
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The way I see it, is that your wife filled out the NTP without
consulting you, believing she couldn't identify the driver.
When you found out about it, you can confirm you were actually
the driver?
I'd explain this to the prosecution on the day, and wish you
luck.
#Post#: 65811--------------------------------------------------
Re: Double charge of speeding and failing to provide information
on the driver
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: April 5, 2025, 4:26 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I'd explain this to the prosecution on the day, and wish you
luck.
--- End Quote ---
I don't think that is quite what the OP has in mind.
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