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#Post#: 65375--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: moa
Date: April 2, 2025, 6:25 am
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I think the following pics are wider and give more detail
[member=1882]Anderson[/member]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 65399--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 2, 2025, 7:52 am
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You can see the difference between the two signs. The 'wrong'
one is a blue on white plate whereas the correct sign is purely
blue. The correct sign doesn't state 'At other times', because
it's not permitted, it states the times which is what's
required.
My suggestion would be:
PCN *****
I am making informal representations on the basis that the
contravention did not occur and the penalty exceeded the amount
permitted in the circumstances of the case.
Firstly, I would say that I hold a Blue Badge which was
displayed as required at the time the PCN was issued.
Now I would refer the authority to the sign in their evidence
taken by the CEO. This shows two signs found in Schedule 4 of
the governing regulations, specifically items 1 in the Part 3
sign table and item 3 in the Part 4 sign timetable. I also refer
you to Part 2, the references to 'yellow' and 'white' panel
signs and how these are to be arranged when displayed on the
same post, as at the location.
The council's yellow sign is prescribed for the purposes of
regulating waiting along a length of road. However, the white
panel sign, which is prescribed for regulating a parking place
which is situated partly off the carriageway, is not prescribed
because it includes the words 'At other times' and it is these
words which lie at the centre of the council's incorrect
signage.
These words are often found within a parking place sign and are
permitted but only when they serve to contrast with other times
stated in the sign e.g. Pay and Display Mon-Sat 9am - 4pm At
other times Permit Holders Z etc.
But this is not what the council have done here. Instead, they
have used the words to contrast with the yellow panel waiting
restriction which has nothing whatsoever to do with the wording
of the parking place sign.
Before this point is rejected, I refer you to the sign
combination which can be seen in the background of photo no.2
enclosed, a close-up of which is enclosed as photo no.3. Here
you will see a correctly formatted footway parking sign. Again
it is mounted in combination with a yellow panel sign but
instead of stating 'At other times' and thereby asking the
motorist to refer to an unrelated waiting sign, it correctly
gives those hours as required. Birkdale is an excellent example
of how footway parking with associated waiting restrictions
should be signed, Firham Park Avenue is not. In fact Firham Park
Avenue is not even a footway parking sign, it's a parking place
sign which therefore could not give rise to an alleged footway
parking contravention.
But the fundamental nonsense which underpins the council's
approach in this matter is that in Birkdale BB holders who are
permitted to park on the waiting restriction are forced to do so
wholly on the carriageway for 1 hour a day at exactly the time
when there is presumably a traffic management rationale for
regulating and minimising on-street parking through the waiting
restriction.
Similarly for Firham and my PCN which was issued because I had
parked in an unlawfully marked parking place with two wheels off
the carriageway during the period of a waiting restriction and
penalised for doing so during the period of 'At other times'
which, for reasons given above, is not a permissible restriction
anyway.
I urge the authority to cancel my PCN and advise council
colleagues to rectify their signage and examine the underlying
rationale as a matter of urgency.
Yes, it could be shortened if it's assumed that they'll reject
out of habit. But why not go full blast, at least you've got the
basis of formal reps if needed later.
And whether parking is even permitted on the footway anyway
hasn't even been touched on.
#Post#: 65466--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: moa
Date: April 2, 2025, 5:13 pm
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Thanks so much [member=1882]Anderson[/member]. You are a true
legend. I have sent off the appeal to Havering Council and I
included the pics from Birkdale avenue. I greatly appreciate all
other responses to my post. I will keep you posted how I get on.
Reading the appeal that you put together does make sense
[member=1882]Anderson[/member].
#Post#: 65563--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: moa
Date: April 3, 2025, 10:52 am
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Sorry folks for coming back with a followup question. Now that I
have submitted my PCN appeal, can I still continue to park in
the same spot on the basis that I think the council would uphold
my appeal? That is assuming they don't change the signage. I
called the council department responsible for installation of
disabled bay and I was told that they have just switched IT
systems on April 1st and they need to do trainings with the IT
system. He said that installation of disabled bay would take
several weeks before it can take place. Another alternative is
to go and park my car at a relative's place which is about 30
minutes away to get to by bus.
Can the CEO come to that same spot and issue me a PCN ticket
whilst waiting for the outcome of appeal with the signage
remaining the same?
#Post#: 65574--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 3, 2025, 1:05 pm
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I don't follow your question.
As a BB holder, you can simply park on the carriageway for an
hour as is done I suspect on 99% of yellow lines up and down the
land. You are not required to park on the pavement, even during
permitted times, it's optional.
#Post#: 65587--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: moa
Date: April 3, 2025, 4:04 pm
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Thanks Anderson for the reply. My question is on days that I
will be working from the office, can I simply park my car in the
marked bay where I got the PCN ticket? I did ramble on in my
last message, my bad.
#Post#: 65619--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: April 4, 2025, 4:56 am
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--- Quote from: moa link ---
>
> Thanks Anderson for the reply. My question is on days that I
will be working from the office, can I simply park my car in the
marked bay where I got the PCN ticket? I did ramble on in my
last message, my bad.
>
--- End Quote ---
He's saying you can just park fully on the carriageway provided
you set the clock to cover the hour. The road isn't that narrow
and there are probably other yellow lines in nearby roads you
can use.
#Post#: 65623--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 4, 2025, 5:42 am
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Personally, I wuoldn't tempt fate until the matter is sorted out
one way or the other. Less hassle.
#Post#: 65676--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: moa
Date: April 4, 2025, 12:19 pm
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I think I'll just go and park at my brother's house which is 30
minutes away. I've got to go to the office next week and I won't
be able at home 8am to 6pm.
#Post#: 72820--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN ticket for code 622
DIR By: moa
Date: May 22, 2025, 12:18 pm
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I've got an update guys. Great news, the PCN was cancelled.
Thank you so much guys for the help. The appeal letter was
extremely key to this successful outcome. You just saved me some
dosh there.
I now avoid leaving my car there where I got the pcn ticket. The
council has been coming up with several excuses why they have
not yet installed the personalised permanent disblaed bay.
Initially, I was told the IT systems was just changed(April 1)
and it would take them several weeks to get training done before
they can install the bay. After some weeks, I called the council
again. I was then told they have given the contractor the
goahead and it should be done within 28 days. In the meantime,
they have put in place a temporary disabled bay that is not
enforceable.
Anyways, I am glad that you guys came to rescue with the pcn
ticket.
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