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#Post#: 65018--------------------------------------------------
Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd/jun
c. with St. Michael's Rd
By: crxvtec Date: March 31, 2025, 12:06 pm
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I have a PCN notification dated 11/03/25 for an event recorded
on 05/12/24.
I would have thought that they'd need to send this within a
month of the event, not over 3 months later.
Details here:
HTML https://ibb.co/album/gM8p2r
Location here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/R4xLoXaMG97YBavC7
#Post#: 65026--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: John U.K. Date: March 31, 2025, 12:28 pm
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Is the car in your name & address on the V5 or is it leased?
#Post#: 65091--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: crxvtec Date: March 31, 2025, 5:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's a company leased vehicle.
#Post#: 65095--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: fraser.mitchell Date: March 31, 2025, 6:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=crxvtec link=topic=5743.msg65091#msg65091
date=1743461132]
It's a company leased vehicle.
[/quote]
Under the legislation, the owner of a vehicle has full
responsibility for appealing or paying a PCN, except where the
owner is a lease or hire company.
In such a case as yours seems to be, the first postal PCN has
been sent to the lease company, the holders of the V5C for the
car, and also the owner. The process is that they can submit
representations to the council that they are a lease company,
and provide the name and address of the lessee on the
contravention day. The first PCN is cancelled, and they then
have 28 days to serve a second PCN to the name and address they
have been given. So a long interval can occur in these
circumstances, given that the council have 28 days to serve a
PCN, and the lease company have 28 days to respond, and then the
council have a further 28 days to send out a second PCN.
However, to be sure this is what has happened, is it your name
and address on the PCN you have received ?
#Post#: 65280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: crxvtec Date: April 1, 2025, 3:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is my company's name and address in the PCN.
#Post#: 65304--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: fraser.mitchell Date: April 1, 2025, 6:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=crxvtec link=topic=5743.msg65280#msg65280
date=1743539253]
Yes it is my company's name and address in the PCN.
[/quote]
So I think the lengthy interval between contravention date and
your receipt of a PCN can be explained, based on my description
of the process, so you should look for something else to submit
reps on. Having said that, no harm will be done if you also
state the PCN has been served out-of-time, because they must
then explain why.
#Post#: 65467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: crxvtec Date: April 2, 2025, 5:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Looking at the PCN Key events, this has all happened 3 months
after alleged PCN issue:
HTML https://ibb.co/BV3dKkZf
Also the colour images showing the car don't show the VRM; only
a black and white still shows the VRM but that then doesn't show
the car. Would that be insufficient evidence?
#Post#: 65683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: crxvtec Date: April 4, 2025, 1:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I've noted that the signage before the turn is all bent out of
shape and doesn't face the roadway squarely.
HTML https://ibb.co/album/gM8p2r
I expect that this falls below the required standard for
signage...does anyone know?
#Post#: 65690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: fraser.mitchell Date: April 4, 2025, 4:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=crxvtec link=topic=5743.msg65683#msg65683
date=1743790758]
I've noted that the signage before the turn is all bent out of
shape and doesn't face the roadway squarely.
HTML https://ibb.co/album/gM8p2r
I expect that this falls below the required standard for
signage...does anyone know?
[/quote]
It is inadequate, but you need to look at Regulation 18 (1) of
The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and
Wales) Regulations 1996 : -
[quote]Traffic signs
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the
order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to
secure—
(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the
road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making
authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate
information as to the effect of the order is made available to
persons using the road;
(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order
remains in force; and
(c)in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the
application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of
existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to
avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong
positions.[/quote]
Having said that, the sign you have posted is an advance warning
sign, not the actual restriction sign, so your argument is not
so powerful.
#Post#: 65720--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 53 failing to comply with a restriction, Mora Rd
/junc. with St. Michael's Rd
By: crxvtec Date: April 5, 2025, 3:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just considering the point below:
"(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near
the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order
making authority may consider requisite for securing that
adequate information as to the effect of the order is made
available to persons using the road;"
If you look at the placement of the signs relative to the road
junction I think there's argument that the signs aren't clearly
legible when approaching the junction from St. Michael's Road,
as happened in this instance, therefore there is only reliance
on the advance warning sign, and we've evidenced that the
advance warming sign falls short of the required standard.
HTML https://ibb.co/LzpBddWj
shows that the nearside sign is side on
from St. Michael's Road and therefore illegible. It also shows
the far side sign is around a metre from the kerb and in order
to read it before passing it, the driver would need to be
looking out of the side window, instead of the windscreen, when
taking the right turn from St. Michael's Road to Mora Road. This
is evidenced here:
HTML https://ibb.co/LhBzgF4X
and the opposite
perspective is shown here:
HTML https://ibb.co/Q7swJr27
In summary, the advance warning sign is damaged, one restriction
sign cannot be read at all due to it being side on to St.
Michael's Road, and the third sign could only be read if not
looking in the direction of travel, i.e., if driving without due
care and attention, and that too only for a very brief moment
during the right turn before that sign too becomes illegible as
it would be side on.
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