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#Post#: 5644--------------------------------------------------
PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: McOzzy
Date: September 21, 2023, 8:31 am
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11/8/2023
Queensway bus terminus, weston super mare
My father received this as per date. However the motorcycle in
question was sold May 2022 as part of a garage & house clearance
at his property. The buyer was essentially a passerby who
expressed an interest, paid cash & I sent the v5 form off and
never gave it another thought.
It appears though that the dvla have not got the updated
ownership information.
The motorcycle was SORN'ed 2010.
My father surrendered his license 8 years ago.
He suffered a debilitating stroke November 2021, is housebound &
confined to a wheelchair.
I wrote to the the council on his behalf to outline the above
but they responded they are unable to correspond with me due to
not being the owner.
I wrote another letter with my dads signature again outlining
the above.
I have written to the dvla after being delayed by their webform
for 2 weeks regarding "the confirmation of the sale or transfer
of a vehicle" letter which in hindsight not received. I have not
yet had a response from them.
Today my dad received an appeal rejected letter, I suspect its
NOTICE OF REJECTION OF REPRESENTATIONS & will now have to appeal
to the independent Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
I guess im asking how best to proceed.
struggling to insert images of the letters..
HTML https://imgur.com/a/lWl3tFx
[img]
HTML https://imgur.com/a/lWl3tFx[/img]
#Post#: 5739--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 21, 2023, 7:01 pm
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Here's the video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16ejn-tFS3I
Location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/4AWifW7QLeCTnTgQ6
Can you please show us the representations page of the original
PCN, the representations sent to the council, and every page of
the notice of rejection?
Appealing on your own is generally not advised, for the reasons
made self-evident by this case:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/warwickshire-cc-pcn-code-24-not-within-markings-of-bay-lakin-road-warwick/
This is going to be a rather complex appeal and I am happy to
act as your dad's representative.
In parallel to that, you or your dad need to go and fill in this
form
HTML https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/vehicle/capture_transaction_type?locale=en&transaction_type_id=receiving_correspondence_for_a_vehicle_i_have_never_owned_or_no_longer_own<br
/>to tell DVLA you no longer own the vehicle. Get a screenshot
of
the confirmation screen when that's done.
#Post#: 5742--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: McOzzy
Date: September 22, 2023, 2:09 am
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Many thanks for responding.
I have included the full correspondence chain below.
EDIT - didnt work. I will look into how to embed images & fix
asap.
EDIT - fixed. Screenshots are massive. Apologies.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/UXWU4Ld.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/5PZx2E0.jpeg
I did not keep a record on the representation form I filled in &
sent back with the below cover. It was basically no longer own
the vehicle & have no details on the current owner. It was
signed by my father.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Msb9uZw.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/yWtyw9O.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/DWzBQzh.jpeg
I do not have the final rejection letter yet. I will collect
this at the weekend when I visit my father & upload it.
I have completed the dvla form as suggested. 946967
I had originally contacted them via their website regarding Have
not received confirmation of the sale or transfer of a vehicle
on the 8/9/23 . They replied on the 15/9/23 advising me to write
to them as they cant accept notification via email.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/nqzqnRu.jpeg
I had a letter ready to send to the dvla as it need signing this
weekend, but based on the information from the form link you
gave me, I have reworded it.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/hAJY5rw.jpg
#Post#: 5839--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 22, 2023, 5:13 pm
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In your draft letter to DVLA, you want to change "ownership" to
"keepership", there is no register of owners in the UK and being
the registered keeper and the legal owner are very different
things.
I also suggest you explicitly ask DVLA to remove your father as
the keeper from 27 May 2022 (they can backdate this), and that
they ask the police to put a "no known keeper" marker on the
vehicle so it can get stopped.
Would you like me to act as your father's representative at the
traffic penalty tribunal?
#Post#: 5849--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: McOzzy
Date: September 23, 2023, 12:44 am
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Thanks for the information re the DVLA letter. Ammended. This
will be posted on monday and likely take 6 weeks for a response.
Yes please to the representation. I will upload the rejection
letter by the end of the weekend.
#Post#: 5911--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: McOzzy
Date: September 23, 2023, 2:59 pm
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The letter isn't quite what I had expected based on my fathers
description plus the template I downloaded from this site. I had
expected a final rejection but it doesn't appear to be that.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/pUtYXdj.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/e3ouvAm.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Xt7WSTI.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/dEiDJbB.jpeg
They have put the pcn on hold for 21 days to allow me to present
further evidence.
- signed sales receipt - I dont have this.
- confirmation from the dvla - i dont have this nor expect
anything for 6 weeks based on their timescales layed out in
their email. Only the reference number from the form 946967
- cancellation of vehicle insurance - I may be able to find the
final insurance letter confirming insurance expiration, but
unlikely after 13 years. Not that this would indicate to me the
vehicle wasnt being used without insurance.
So I dont see what evidence I can add, unless a doctors letter
confirming my fathers inability to walk since nov 2021 & hence
ride a motorcycle? which you alluded to in your email.
If you would rather I responded to your email & go straight to
the independent tribunal now, rather than trying to provide
further evidence to the council, then I'm happy to do that.
Thank you.
#Post#: 5921--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: guest17
Date: September 24, 2023, 3:33 am
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OP---the timescale for the DVLA looks prohibitive so your
backstop is letting cp8759 represent you at Tribunal as he has
suggested. He can ask for a number of adjournments which helps
timescales.
TBH if the Council is chasing your father in the knowledge that
he is disabled then they haven't dealt with his case properly
under the Equality Act or the disability legislation.
A letter from his doctor, which will probably cost a fee, is of
no real use.You can provide evidence of disability by a DWP
award letter or a Blue Badge.
The crux of the matter is ownership so issues like cancellation
of insurance and SORN are important pieces of evidence.
Looking at the location it appears as if the Council have
prepared a honeytrap just outside a McDonalds. The estate roads
either side are No-Entry with the bus gate in between. The worry
is that our friend on the motorbike is a delivery driver working
out of Mcdonalds so more PCNs might arrive.But you know where to
find him!
Mike
#Post#: 5923--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: McOzzy
Date: September 24, 2023, 4:22 am
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"Looking at the location it appears as if the Council have
prepared a honeytrap just outside a McDonalds" - i quite agree
after watching the footage of the rider hesitating & appearing
unsure after riding into the turning.
"The crux of the matter is ownership so issues like cancellation
of insurance and SORN are important pieces of evidence." - I'm
going to try to find these when at his house next, although at a
minimum of 8 years for the license & 13 years for the sorn, I
dont hold out much hope of finding anything.
I could make this go away now by paying the £35 but as you say,
it doesn't help with possible future infringements with the
keepership being incorrect. Plus the whole unfairness of the
situation is really irking me.
I have now contacted cp8759 thank you.
#Post#: 8772--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Somerset Council -34J Being in a buslane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 30, 2023, 12:10 pm
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Outcome
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=189jsvYGNcvv0dg1VtGjtSbiUgebm3WvV.
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