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       #Post#: 64790--------------------------------------------------
       Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: AshNaz87
       Date: March 29, 2025, 1:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hello folks,
       Received a PCN from Euro Car Parks for the reason of overstaying
       at an Esso Petrol Station. It has been recently redeveloped,
       with a new rule on the time allowed spent on site, which was
       unbeknownst to the driver.
       The driver was waiting in a queue to use the jet wash. As it was
       quite a busy afternoon, the time exceeded the permitted 30 mins
       on site. The transactions were provided as evidence.
       I have appealed the PCN and received a couple of rejection
       letters; one which included paying an administration fee.
       Please find all correspondence attached.
       Would appreciate any advice on this matter.
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 64794--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: b789
       Date: March 29, 2025, 2:00 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       How on earth are we supposed to be able to assist if we don't
       have the full story. You have not shown the Notice to Keeper
       (NtK) you received or the wording of your appeals. We have no
       idea where the drivers identity has been revealed, inadvertently
       or otherwise.
       Also, we have no idea why you have received two POPLA codes for
       the same PCN> On what basis did their reduce the charge to £20?
       Have a read of section 3.4 of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single
       Code of Practice (PPSCoP)
  HTML https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/Sector%20Code%20Templates/sectorsingleCodeofPracticeVersion1.1130225.pdf<br
       />and tell us whether that part of the code has been complied
       with.
       #Post#: 64795--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: AshNaz87
       Date: March 29, 2025, 2:27 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       My bad.
       Please find attached the original PCN, along with my appeal.
       I appealed twice; once without any transactions or letters (done
       in haste due to emotions) and again with a letter and proof of
       use of the jet wash.
       When you say full story, I'm not sure what you mean. Please let
       me know if there's anything else, you'd like to know.
       As to why they reduced the amount to £20, your guess is as good
       as mine.
       #Post#: 64796--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: G6PRK
       Date: March 29, 2025, 2:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You should repost the NtK with your personal information
       redacted.
       You seem to have posted the second 'appeal' - could you also
       post the first appeal. Could you also post the rejection letters
       (EDIT: Ignore - I see these now on the first post)
       b789 has also asked a fair question about PPSCOP 3.4 which it
       would be useful for you to answer (RE your claim that they have
       changed the rules)
       Have you complained to the land owner that a legitimate customer
       (the driver) is being pestered by an unregulated parking company
       for a clearly unreasonable charge?
       In their rejection they show a sign on the jet wash saying that
       time can be extended by giving the cashier your reg - I assume
       the driver didn't see this or didn't do it in any case?
       #Post#: 64797--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: G6PRK
       Date: March 29, 2025, 2:46 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Further to my response above, it seems like the change to £20 is
       them using the BPA rule where they can cancel a charge and issue
       an up to £20 admin fee in instances of keying errors.
       Was the VRM keyed erroneously? Or not at all?
       If the latter, this would seem like a weird thing for them to do
       but I don't know much about this "rule".
       Personally I wouldn't pay a penny and would fight them all the
       way, but if you do choose to pay the £20 you should clarify with
       them first that this will bring an end to proceedings.
       #Post#: 64804--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: jfollows
       Date: March 29, 2025, 4:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The “further appeal rejection” states that the PCN will be
       CLOSED on receipt of £20.
       It seems they’re happy to treat this as a “keying error”.
       #Post#: 64805--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: AshNaz87
       Date: March 29, 2025, 4:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [member=4633]G6PRK[/member]
       Thank you for letting me know about the redaction. Not sure how
       it escaped me!
       With regards to the below questions:
       --- Quote ---
       > Have you complained to the land owner that a legitimate
       customer (the driver) is being pestered by an unregulated
       parking company for a clearly unreasonable charge?
       --- End Quote ---
       Indeed I have. MFG is the parent company and unfortunately have
       outsourced their customer service team to India. Let's just say
       the level of service is below par and they kept deferring me to
       Euro Car Parks, as they are unable to assist with the matter.
       --- Quote ---
       > In their rejection they show a sign on the jet wash saying
       that time can be extended by giving the cashier your reg - I
       assume the driver didn't see this or didn't do it in any case?
       --- End Quote ---
       There is no sign on the jet wash to indicate that time can be
       extended by giving your registration in-store. There may be
       signs elsewhere, but I would argue they can easily be
       overlooked, as they are not in the most obvious of places.
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 64809--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: G6PRK
       Date: March 29, 2025, 4:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > Indeed I have. MFG is the parent company and unfortunately
       have outsourced their customer service team to India. Let's just
       say the level of service is below par and they kept deferring me
       to Euro Car Parks, as they are unable to assist with the matter.
       --- End Quote ---
       Maybe some of these guys would be able to help...
  HTML https://www.motorfuelgroup.com/leadership-team/
       --- Quote ---
       > There is no sign on the jet wash to indicate that time can be
       extended by giving your registration in-store. There may be
       signs elsewhere, but I would argue they can easily be
       overlooked, as they are not in the most obvious of places.
       --- End Quote ---
       Are you sure? Page 4 of the first rejection and Page 3 of the
       second rejection show a sign which seems to be affixed to the
       'glass panel' the typically surrounds a jet wash bay.
       To be clear, I'm not meaning to be argumentative but you will
       need to be very clear on all of the circumstances in the
       instance this ends up in court. For example, if they're showing
       an picture from a different site the court would take a dim
       view, but if you say there isn't/wasn't one and its provable
       there was, that will also be a problem.
       --
       I would agree that it looks like they are willing to accept it
       as a keying error - but since there wasn't a keying error that
       would seem odd and I wouldn't simply take them at their word. If
       the online portal now also shows £20 I guess you'd probably be
       fine.
       That said if there was a keying error by the attendant in the
       store (since it doesn't sound like a self serve situation) then
       how could you possibly be on the hook for any amount of money?
       The BPA guidance also says up to £20 for admin costs, I wonder
       if it really cost them £20 to reply to a couple of appeals with
       boilerplate/inaccurate letters? Their willingness to drop the
       cost would seem like they're clutching at straws to get
       something out of you.
       You have a choice - accept the mugs discount - or fight them all
       the way for what is clearly an unreasonable charge.
       #Post#: 64853--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Euro Car Parks PCN at Esso (MFG) Petrol Station - Overstay
   DIR By: b789
       Date: March 30, 2025, 6:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Personally, I would not pay into a scam like this. I'd just let
       them issue a court claim through DCB Legal, defend it and wait
       for the inevitable strike out or discontinuation. I am 99.9%
       confident that that would be the outcome.
       Let ECP waste their money. So what, if I get a load of useless
       debt recovery letters? More paper to shred into hamster bedding.
       OP, what you need to understand is that this is a well trodden
       path and unless you're low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree
       who is likely to pay out of ignorance or fear, then as long as
       you follow the advice you receive here, you won't be paying a
       penny to ECP.
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