DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 5665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: arctickoala
Date: September 21, 2023, 11:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think his post should have been passed onto him. I don't know
if he's dealt with it on time. I can find out, but if he hasn't
dealt with it on time, then what is the course of action here?
#Post#: 5681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 21, 2023, 1:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think his post should have been passed onto him.
Only "should" ? Why is there doubt ?
#Post#: 5686--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: arctickoala
Date: September 21, 2023, 2:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's not my post, so only he can answer if he's picked it up on
time or even at all. How does this affect the situation?
#Post#: 5689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 21, 2023, 2:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, it doesn't affect you, it is his problem registering a car
at an address that is not his usual address thus not getting
mail on time or even at all. However, as you've told us, you are
getting a load of hassle from the bailiffs. In the end, the
bailiffs will track him down and seize property, usually the car
as this is easy to find.
#Post#: 5690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: arctickoala
Date: September 21, 2023, 2:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely. What are his options? Paying the £279 fine when he's
paid the price he was asked is crazy. Should he continue with
appealing / Statutory Declaration? Is the bailiff correct with
the option of paying and then appealing? If the appeal succeeds,
then can he reclaim the total amount, or are the bailiff fees
not recoverable?
#Post#: 5699--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: September 21, 2023, 3:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If he wins overall, all monies paid are recoverable, including
bailiff's fees...may take some time but all must come back to
him.
Pay now and claim back later is valid at this stage, if only to
prevent further escalation of costs or enforcement action such
as cars being clamped.
More to the point is what bruvver is going to achieve.
He has to provide a truthful statement that he did not receive
one of the Notices that the procedure calls for.
Can he actually truthfully say that or is it more a case of he
ignored the post that was being delivered. Does he know himself?
(Don't answer these questions but be aware it is a criminal
offence to lie on that statement)
He also has to provide an Out of Time request...basically a
request for the statement to be accepted late and providing a
good excuse.
Even the best of reasons can be objected to by the Authority,
who normally do. An objection often finds the request denied.
Which means a request to a District Judge to decide... that s
over 100 notes on a decision on papers or over 250 for a
hearing... costs not normally recoverable.
Only when that lot is done can the PCN itself be appealed, at
the moment it is about process not the rights or wrongs of the
PCN.
It is about where the process went wrong and whether brother was
blameless.
#Post#: 5703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 21, 2023, 3:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Frankly, until we can see TfL documents, no real advice can be
given. He cannot appeal any penalty charge notice as the process
is at its final stage for debt recovery. The only way to revert
the process is to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration.
What would be put on that declaration ?
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice
and also
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe2-application-to-file-a-statutory-declaration-out-of-time
#Post#: 5743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: Neil B
Date: September 22, 2023, 2:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: arctickoala link ---
>
> Absolutely. What are his options? Paying the £279 fine when
he's paid the price he was asked is crazy.
>
--- End Quote ---
The case history you showed says he never paid the charge at
all?
#Post#: 5752--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: NightSoul
Date: September 22, 2023, 4:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Bailiffs cannot execute your brother's warrant at your address
it is not where he lives. Paragraph 14(6) of Schedule 12 of the
Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
The warrant is therefore a defective instrument.
If bailiffs threaten you with enforcement, then just show a
document that you are the occupant of the address.
Transport for London needs to re-apply for a new warrant
specifying your brother’s current address (wherever that may
be). Civil Procedure Rule 75.7(7).
You don't need to pay the debt on your brother's behalf.
#Post#: 5757--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff at my home for paid Congestion Zone Charge
DIR By: Bailiff Advice
Date: September 22, 2023, 5:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NightSoul link ---
>
> Bailiffs cannot execute your brother's warrant at your address
it is not where he lives. Paragraph 14(6) of Schedule 12 of the
Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
>
> The warrant is therefore a defective instrument.
>
> Transport for London needs to re-apply for a new warrant
specifying your brother’s current address (wherever that may
be). Civil Procedure Rule 75.7(7).
>
> You don't need to pay the debt on your brother's behalf.
>
--- End Quote ---
Given that the registered keeper appears to have registered his
vehicle at his brother's address, I cannot see how it could be
argued that the warrant is a 'defective instrument'(whatever
that may be).
The correct course of action here is for the vehicle keeper to
submit forms PE2 and PE3 (Out of Time Statutory Declaration). He
will need to explain why he registered the vehicle to his
brothers address and most importantly, whether or not he
collected the post etc. He will of course have to provide his
current address on the forms and also confirm that he had
amended his V5C (Log Book) to his current address.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 3
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page