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#Post#: 64693--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: sam999
Date: March 28, 2025, 3:40 pm
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> You were either trespassing, because it's not land over which
the public has a right to pass, or you were within the scope of
the waiting restriction, because it's part of the road.
>
> We're not concerned with the former.
>
> So, would an adjudicator find that this land is part of a
road?
>
> Frankly, with no current or historical evidence (in particular
GSV) who knows?
>
> My view is that it would be considered to be part of the road.
>
> You could request the council-with their Highway Authority hat
on- to provide you with a copy of the highway terrier for the
location as this would at least establish whether they maintain
the area.
>
--- End Quote ---
I just did search on the highway register and it shows Shude
Hill as adopted, NOT part adopted. I guess this would infer it
is part of the road?
But if so is that signage correct for behind the wall?
Thanks
#Post#: 64713--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: March 29, 2025, 3:19 am
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I don't think searching by name nails it, after all we know that
Shude is public highway. The question is a different one i.e. is
where you parked considered to be within the boundaries of the
highway?
As regards the sign, if the edge of the carriageway is marked by
DYL and double kerb blips then the sign is redundant and adds
nothing to the markings themselves which on their own convey the
24/7 no waiting and no loading restrictions. But it being there
when not needed would not be a defence.
#Post#: 65166--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: sam999
Date: April 1, 2025, 8:57 am
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Sheffield council have confirmed the entire area up to the
buildings edge is adopted and part of the highway.
I'm not sure where to go with this now, it seems ambiguously
unfair to an average road user to know this from a sign facing
over a wall area which vehicles could also reasonably park.
#Post#: 65171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 1, 2025, 9:10 am
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And as I've posted, the upright traffic sign is redundant if the
edge of the carriageway has DYL and double kerb blips because
these, even to the average road user, should convey 24/7 no
waiting and no loading.
#Post#: 65175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: sam999
Date: April 1, 2025, 9:24 am
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The average road user is definitely not going to check over the
edge of a wall for such markings, or assume they would even
apply beyond it.
#Post#: 65182--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 1, 2025, 10:02 am
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Then how did the driver get there without observing the
contextual road markings? And 'I've seen vehicles there a few
times too so I was satisfied it was permitted.' would suggest
you know the area.
You're free to make reps and pursue your legal rights(if you are
the keeper) to adjudication. Your choice.
I'm simply giving you what I believe would be the council's view
and that of an adjudicator.
Your argument is that you were parked on the carriageway with no
markings to indicate a restriction. I put it this way because if
you knew that you were not on the carriageway but the footway
instead then as you are expected to know that markings may only
be placed at the edge of the carriageway you were obliged to
look for the edge of the carriageway, even if beyond a dwarf
wall.
#Post#: 65455--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: sam999
Date: April 2, 2025, 1:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Then how did the driver get there without observing the
contextual road markings? And 'I've seen vehicles there a few
times too so I was satisfied it was permitted.' would suggest
you know the area.
>
> You're free to make reps and pursue your legal rights(if you
are the keeper) to adjudication. Your choice.
>
> I'm simply giving you what I believe would be the council's
view and that of an adjudicator.
>
> Your argument is that you were parked on the carriageway with
no markings to indicate a restriction. I put it this way because
if you knew that you were not on the carriageway but the footway
instead then as you are expected to know that markings may only
be placed at the edge of the carriageway you were obliged to
look for the edge of the carriageway, even if beyond a dwarf
wall.
>
--- End Quote ---
I explained in my very first post.. "placed in such a way the
driver would never see it on entry or exit to the area."
I certainly didn't see them when I drove in at the side with the
wall obscuring the view and it was during darkness. There are
also two trees on the left side now which aren't shown on the
street view.
There is enough space to park a car on the other side of the
wall where the markings and signage are in place so it isn't
reasonable any average person would assume them to also apply to
behind the wall as well.
I would certainly like to make reps but I'm not yet sure what I
should be saying.
#Post#: 65691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: sam999
Date: April 4, 2025, 4:11 pm
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Anyone?
#Post#: 65695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shude hill PCN Sheffield, signage the wrong side facing
wrong way
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 4, 2025, 5:27 pm
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Just submit some reps stating that you saw the double-yellow
lines and assumed they only applied up to the low wall alongside
the carriageway.
As you will no doubt have already gathered, opinion on here is
divided or scattered. I have to say I don't think this is a case
that is winnable at adjudication. However, don't cough-up
without first submitting some reps. One never knows, they may
shoot themselves in the foot in their reply !
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