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       #Post#: 64040--------------------------------------------------
       Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: mr-jp
       Date: March 25, 2025, 6:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hey guys, I recently received a letter from DVLA threatening to
       take me to court over an allegation of having an unlicensed
       vehicle sighted on a public road. They are asking me to plead
       guilty or not guilty.
       This relates to my previous car, which has been left parked on
       my friends front driveway & SORNED off road for a few months.
       But DVLA said an NSL van saw it on a  different road which is 5
       mins away (at 5am) & not at the location it is parked currently.
       Timeline of Events:
       15/10/24: I received a letter from DVLA demanding £94 for an
       alleged sighting of my vehicle. However, they provided no proof
       or evidence of this claim.
       In response, I denied the allegation and supplied a photo of my
       car on my friend’s driveway, along with a Google Maps location.
       I also requested evidence from DVLA to support their allegation.
       DVLA’s Response: They informed me that the sighting was made by
       NSL wheel-clamping contractors and advised me to contact NSL
       directly for evidence.
       NSL’s Response: After I emailed NSL, they responded requesting
       an excessive amount of personal information including: my
       driving licence or passport, proof of address (dated within 3
       months), a copy of the V5C logbook, and a photo of the VIN on
       the vehicle JUST for them to even look into this matter further.
       So once again I was left with no evidence.
       At the time I received NSLs response, I was traveling abroad and
       could not provide these documents immediately. However, I also
       found their request unusual and excessive & wasn't sure if this
       was some sort of scam. In the past, DVLA has always included
       proof of any allegation with their fines & never required such
       information of me before.
       Now a few months later I have received another letter
       threatening to take me to court but still haven't seen any
       evidence. They have also stated that I disputed their claim but
       provided them with no supporting evidence even though I sent
       them pictures of where my car is parked.
       I would've been ok with paying the original fine if I had seen
       proof but definitely not without it & not sure how I can defend
       myself fairly without seeing any evidence after contacting the 2
       parties involved.
       I am planning to plead not guilty & fight it in court but is
       there any other advice anyone can give me here?
       #Post#: 64048--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: DWMB2
       Date: March 25, 2025, 7:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Others with more expertise than me will no doubt be along
       shortly, but two things that immediately stand out:
       - You mention that you sent a photo of the car parked on a
       driveway, but don't mention when this photo was taken. Is it
       timestamped, and if so, when?
       - You mention that you would pay the sum demanded if you saw
       'proof'. This suggests you are open to the possibility that your
       vehicle has been driven whilst SORN. Who has access to the keys,
       and what steps have you taken to determine if and when they
       might have used the vehicle?
       #Post#: 64055--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: March 25, 2025, 7:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       When the police or DVLA make an allegation and offer you an
       out-of-court disposal to settle the matter without prosecution,
       they do not have to provide you with evidence (though they
       sometimes do). Your choice is either to accept their offer or
       face prosecution.
       That is the position you are in. If you further decline their
       offer they will almost certainly prosecute you. They will then
       have to provide you with the evidence they intend to rely on to
       convict you and you can choose to plead guilty or not guilty. If
       you are convicted you will be sentenced in accordance with the
       Magistrates’ sentencing guidelines.
       Have you enquired of your friend to establish whether the
       allegation might be justified (i.e. did he take the car off his
       drive)?
       #Post#: 64058--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: mr-jp
       Date: March 25, 2025, 8:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I took the photo after the allegation to show where I had left
       it the past few months but don't think I included a timestamp.
       Just the picture
       & sometimes my friend had the keys, he said he once may have
       moved it off his driveway briefly when relatives came to visit
       but only next to his house & not at the location or time that
       was stated.
       #Post#: 64060--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: ManxTom
       Date: March 25, 2025, 8:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: mr-jp link ---
       >
       > I took the photo after the allegation to show where I had left
       it the past few months but don't think I included a timestamp.
       Just the picture
       >
       > & sometimes my friend had the keys, he said they once may have
       moved it off their driveway briefly when they had relatives
       visit but only next to their house & not at the location or time
       that was stated.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       So he admits he moved it once.  could he have moved it more than
       once?
       #Post#: 64063--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: mr-jp
       Date: March 25, 2025, 8:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
       >
       > When the police or DVLA make an allegation and offer you an
       out-of-court disposal to settle the matter without prosecution,
       they do not have to provide you with evidence (though they
       sometimes do). Your choice is either to accept their offer or
       face prosecution.
       >
       > That is the position you are in. If you further decline their
       offer they will almost certainly prosecute you. They will then
       have to provide you with the evidence they intend to rely on to
       convict you and you can choose to plead guilty or not guilty. If
       you are convicted you will be sentenced in accordance with the
       Magistrates’ sentencing guidelines.
       >
       > Have you enquired of your friend to establish whether the
       allegation might be justified (i.e. did he take the car off his
       drive)?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Wow ok I find that quite unfair. After looking online I saw
       other people with cases of their car being falsely flagged in
       the wrong location by NSL & then when they asked for proof their
       case was eventually dropped.
       Thanks for the information. If I am correct is the sentencing a
       £1000 fine?
       My friend said they may have moved it once but just outside
       their house & not at the location or time where DVLA & NSL
       stated.
       If their evidence is incorrect & they don't have proof of my car
       being at the location stated do I have any chance to win this
       case?
       #Post#: 64070--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: Dave Green
       Date: March 25, 2025, 9:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: mr-jp link ---
       >
       > & sometimes my friend had the keys, he said he once may have
       moved it off his driveway briefly when relatives came to visit
       but only next to his house & not at the location or time that
       was stated.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       May have?
       Either he did or he didn't and whichever is the case, he would
       know for sure so his saying "may have" would have alarm bells
       ringing for me for sure.
       Before you consider going to court, I would have another word
       with your friend and get them to understand that if it goes to
       court and the DVLA produce evidence of the car being used on the
       road, it will end up costing an awful lot more than the £94 they
       are currently asking for.
       #Post#: 64074--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: mr-jp
       Date: March 25, 2025, 9:19 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Dave Green link ---
       >
       > [quote author=mr-jp link=topic=5660.msg64058#msg64058
       date=1742908811]
       > & sometimes my friend had the keys, he said he once may have
       moved it off his driveway briefly when relatives came to visit
       but only next to his house & not at the location or time that
       was stated.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       May have?
       Either he did or he didn't and whichever is the case, he would
       know for sure so his saying "may have" would have alarm bells
       ringing for me for sure.
       Before you consider going to court, I would have another word
       with your friend and get them to understand that if it goes to
       court and the DVLA produce evidence of the car being used on the
       road, it will end up costing an awful lot more than the £94 they
       are currently asking for.
       [/quote]
       Yeah I took it as he did but don't think he'd lie to me about
       the location or time tbh. Which is why I was thinking to fight
       this in court, because as far as I know my car hasn't been on
       the road it was apparently sighted on.
       Problem is, I am way past the £94 stage now. They are saying if
       I plead guilty my case will be dealt with under 'single justice
       procedure' & I will be sent details of any sentence & fine.
       Which I'm not sure what those are
       #Post#: 64077--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: March 25, 2025, 9:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines are available online. If
       you keep on repeating the same question, somebody might look it
       up for you. Or I might lock the thread.
       #Post#: 64080--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unlicensed keeping of a motor vehicle Court Threat From DVLA
   DIR By: mr-jp
       Date: March 25, 2025, 9:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've literally responded to people trying to help me. Where have
       I repeated the same question?
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