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#Post#: 63303--------------------------------------------------
Hammersmith and Fulham - 52M - failing to comply - Broomhouse
Lane
DIR By: Watchamacallit
Date: March 19, 2025, 5:09 pm
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Hi,
Im looking for some guidance on a received 52M. First, I have
never been aware of such penalties until now. A few details
below:
I was travelling through Fulham unaware of this 52M prohibition;
I had just been passing through and had never been to this part
of the Fulham previously. first timer.
A couple of days ago, I received this in the mail. After some
investigation on firstly what this was and some background on
it, it appears it is part of some clean air scheme, (which I'm
all for). This scheme, i believe, was introduced as a trial with
a camera, which ceased as a trial and became permanent on 31
January 2025.
.
This information can be found here:
HTML https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/news/2023/02/warning-period-non-hf-drivers-ends-clean-air-neighbourhood-trial
HTML http://
HTML https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/news/2023/02/warning-period-non-hf-drivers-ends-clean-air-neighbourhood-trial
.
.
My first concern is that the signs are just not clear enough,
even at 20 mph, to be able to take necessary action to avoid the
area, (especially if you are not local) and the scheme is NEW
and the road markings that are on the road, barely take priority
when driving safely, to be honest.
Second, there is a junction right next to the signs to the
right. In the video, there is a second large vehicle, which I
would have been aware of while driving, which clearly is pulling
out. This vehicle will have also been obstructing my view of the
sign on the right side of the road, right up until I pass the
sign, which can be barely seen if you look close enough on photo
2, behind the sizeable tree.
I was completely unaware of this and didn't, in all honesty, see
the signage nor feel there was any prohibition; it's not clear,
plus the islands make this part of the road look like a
crossing; it's confusing. Even in the photo, which is of a
fairly acceptable resolution, it is difficult to make out. Add a
speed of 20 mph to the equation, and it's even less convincing.
Im not sure how to respond, but this is out of order. Any advice
is welcome. I'm stumped, but I don't feel this is a penalty I
should pay for ignorance.
Thank you
[attach=1]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 63313--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hammersmith and Fulham - 52M - failing to comply -
Broomhouse Lane
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 19, 2025, 6:35 pm
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Have you looked at the video yet ? It shows you charging past
two "flying motorbike" signs that mean "No Entry for
motorvehicles. So the contravention seems to be made out clearly
enough. Unfortunately GSV is only up to September 2022 and even
then, doesn't cover the full length of the roads so we can't
look to see if there are any advance warnings of the
restriction.
Reading your narrative, it seems to imply you didn't know what
the "flying motorbike' signs meant; true or false ?
--- Quote ---
> but I don't feel this is a penalty I should pay for ignorance.
--- End Quote ---
Unfortunately, as a motorist you are expected to know the
meaning of all signs. Certainly claiming ignorance of them is
unlikely to get the PCN cancelled.
There may be a 'technical' appeal based on H & F mismanagement
of the enforcement process, so wait a bit in case somebody comes
up with a suggestion, because these can win on their own
irrespective of the contravention. Councils must obey the law
and regulations same as you. However, don't miss the deadline
for submitting representations.
#Post#: 63346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hammersmith and Fulham - 52M - failing to comply -
Broomhouse Lane
DIR By: Watchamacallit
Date: March 20, 2025, 5:04 am
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FIRSTLY, I WANT TO COMMENT ON THE "CHARGING PAST" comment.
This video has, for some reason, been sped up. The diagonal line
markings on the road are approximately 12 feet apart; my vehicle
is 13.57 feet long. It takes me approximately 1.5 seconds to
pass the distance between 2 lines (*orange). according to this
video: *speed = distance/time Im travelling at: (12/1.5 =
5.45455 mph) Though it is likely more like 3 times that. The
Land Rover on the right was almost stationary as I passed, as
well as obstructing the view of the sign on the right from the
angle I was at, during approach. (see attachment example)
Its a shame the road isn't covered at its origin on Google Maps,
despite there being an HGV gate.
(And yes, I have never seen this sign previously; I am a
non-commuting driver.)
[attach=1]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 63365--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hammersmith and Fulham - 52M - failing to comply -
Broomhouse Lane
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 20, 2025, 6:01 am
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In recent times, the "flying motorbike" sign has come into
frequent use with all the LTNs and school streets being rolled
out throughout London, so do be aware that if you drive on "side
roads", you can get caught out.
If you live nearby, you might care to go back and see if there
are any advance warning signs of the restriction. This could
help if you decide to fight the PCN, but it would inevitably
mean going to London Tribunals. The councils just love the money
too much to give way on things like this. They keep all the
penalty money; did you know that ?
#Post#: 63380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hammersmith and Fulham - 52M - failing to comply -
Broomhouse Lane
DIR By: Watchamacallit
Date: March 20, 2025, 7:23 am
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It definitely seems that way.
One thing that baffles me is that this restriction, which is
supposed to reinforce clean air for residents, yet is installed
on a part of the road where there are NO residential properties,
as can be clearly seen in the video and photos, yet they have
used this opportunity to lure and entrap drivers. I may be able
to revisit this scene, but to what end? They just want money and
an excuse; it's nothing more than greed. and I'm sure they do
keep all of the proceeds, of which I'm certain very little gets
put back into the community.
The fact that this connects those areas seems irrelevant, and it
is hardly a cut-through; there's nothing to see or do in that
area, as I have learnt from this experience.
It looks like a pay-up, shut-up, matter. it's very
disappointing.
#Post#: 63540--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hammersmith and Fulham - 52M - failing to comply -
Broomhouse Lane
DIR By: scienceguy142
Date: March 20, 2025, 6:11 pm
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As someone who used to live on this exact rat run I can assure
it wasn't people going through it to 'see it', but to get from
Putney to Wandsworth and vice versa.
Nobody lured you in either.
As for the lack of properties along the short stretch (there is
actually an estate but I digress), it's to combat the horrific
traffic that existed on both sides of this stretch on the side
streets.
It has made an amazing difference to the area, and locals now
can travel quickly through the borough.
As we all pay for our road fund through Vehicle tax etc whether
that is morally is another story!
Anyway, as for your PCN. I can't see any faults (although your
speed is something!) so maybe there is an angle there?
#Post#: 63561--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hammersmith and Fulham - 52M - failing to comply -
Broomhouse Lane
DIR By: Watchamacallit
Date: March 21, 2025, 4:10 am
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I appreciate your story; you will read from my comments above
that I very much support this type of initiative; tackling air
and noise pollution in London is essential and not just in
Fulham. I too have lived in an area with terrible traffic,
pollution, and parking issues; those were so bad they caused
health issues. That isn't the debate here; I really, really do
get it.
My concern is that I can't even go one borough over to drop a
child off at a birthday party on a Sunday without incurring a
hefty penalty for the pleasure.
But that's my word against the councils. I was lured. Not
everybody is looking for a shortcut, and I have to drive
EVERYWHERE with a Satnav.
I do not believe that this signage is correctly positioned; so
close to a junction and a crossing, surrounded by trees, it is
morrally confusing if you don't live within 50 meters of this
rat trap.
The fact that the video has been sped up is surely grounds for a
dismissal, as it is tampering with evidence, which makes it
appear as if my actions are intentional and don't portray
accurately the entire events leading up to the signage. Is
anyone able to add to that?
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