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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 63507--------------------------------------------------
Re: Exceeding temporary 50 mph limit on motorway - average speed
camera recorded 59 mph
DIR By: ohmygod
Date: March 20, 2025, 1:17 pm
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--- Quote from: Freecall link ---
>
> [quote author=ohmygod link=topic=5600.msg63306#msg63306
date=1742423225]
>
> Could such an argument be used as mitigation while pleading
guilty rather as an outright defence?
>
>
--- End Quote ---
The problem you have is that it is not really mitigation.
“I wasn't paying sufficient attention and therefore missed the
big terminal signs” doesn't really cut it.
I suspect deep-down that you know that already though.
[/quote]
I actually believe I was paying attention (even if I missed the
initial signs) but what I'm understanding from comments is that
it's almost impossible to defend against strict liability.
I definitly will prepare the EH plea as the ban and points is
going to affect my other half more than me.
But I do think there is an argument to be made that the signage
wasn't adequate in the section - as it was an average speed
camera - the facts are that I'm being accused of speeding across
the whole stretch of motorway from Jct35A-35 and not at a
specific point.
If I pleaded guilty or was found guilty do I have criminal
conviction that is always on my record?
#Post#: 63509--------------------------------------------------
Re: Exceeding temporary 50 mph limit on motorway - average speed
camera recorded 59 mph
DIR By: 666
Date: March 20, 2025, 1:25 pm
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--- Quote from: ohmygod link ---
>
> [quote author=Freecall link=topic=5600.msg63327#msg63327
date=1742456477]
> [quote author=ohmygod link=topic=5600.msg63306#msg63306
date=1742423225]
>
> Could such an argument be used as mitigation while pleading
guilty rather as an outright defence?
>
>
--- End Quote ---
The problem you have is that it is not really mitigation.
“I wasn't paying sufficient attention and therefore missed the
big terminal signs” doesn't really cut it.
I suspect deep-down that you know that already though.
[/quote]
But I do think there is an argument to be made that the signage
wasn't adequate in the section - as it was an average speed
camera - the facts are that I'm being accused of speeding across
the whole stretch of motorway from Jct35A-35 and not at a
specific point.
If I pleaded guilty or was found guilty do I have criminal
conviction that is always on my record?
[/quote]
What does the fact that it was an average speed camera have to
do with the signage?
As you exceeded the limit on average you must have exceeded it
at one or more point in the measured stretch.
On the positive side, that offence does not give you a criminal
record.
#Post#: 63512--------------------------------------------------
Re: Exceeding temporary 50 mph limit on motorway - average speed
camera recorded 59 mph
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: March 20, 2025, 1:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ohmygod link ---
>
> But I do think there is an argument to be made that the
signage wasn't adequate in the section
--- End Quote ---
Take it to court and plead not guilty then.
--- Quote ---
> If I pleaded guilty or was found guilty do I have criminal
conviction that is always on my record?
>
--- End Quote ---
You will have been convicted of a criminal offence and will have
to declare it, if asked, for five years. Speeding is not a
recordable offence, so you won’t have a criminal record.
#Post#: 63514--------------------------------------------------
Re: Exceeding temporary 50 mph limit on motorway - average speed
camera recorded 59 mph
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: March 20, 2025, 2:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ohmygod link ---
>
>
> ... But I do think there is an argument to be made that the
signage wasn't adequate in the section - as it was an average
speed camera - the facts are that I'm being accused of speeding
across the whole stretch of motorway from Jct35A-35 and not at a
specific point...
>
>
--- End Quote ---
No. You are being accused of driving in excess of the speed
limit as measured by average speed cameras located at two points
between J35A and J35. It is not a fact that you are being
accused of speeding across that whole stretch of motorway.
As they are average speed cameras it's quite probable - more
likely a certainty if you were trying to slow down once you
realised - that you were travelling even faster then 59mph at
some point between the cameras
#Post#: 63520--------------------------------------------------
Re: Exceeding temporary 50 mph limit on motorway - average speed
camera recorded 59 mph
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: March 20, 2025, 2:33 pm
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--- Quote from: ManxTom link ---
>
> As they are average speed cameras it's quite probable - more
likely a certainty if you were trying to slow down once you
realised - that you were travelling even faster then 59mph at
some point between the cameras
>
--- End Quote ---
I did the calculations of travelling at 70mph at the first
camera to the repeater signs - then 50mph from that point to the
next camera. It works out at 54mph.
Of course, you cannot decelerate from 70mph to 50mph instantly
but you'd see the 50mph signs prior to passing them - so
54/55mph is the likely average.
But as I already note, an average of 59mph would only be
obtained by exceeding the 70 and/or 50 by some margin -
exceeding one of the prevailing limits the OP thought they were
in...
Clearly an average speed is just that, not an instantaneous
speed. But it proves the peak speed was no less than the
calculated amount. (Potentially in favour of the motorist if
they reduce their speed during the gap between cameras)
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