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#Post#: 63114--------------------------------------------------
Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box junction
DIR By: chris8
Date: March 18, 2025, 1:56 pm
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I've been snapped in the yellow box of a high st. It's a fairly
new box on Wanstead High St and placed just ahead of a zebra
crossing - which has caused dangerous driving by some when they
try to avoid being left in the box through no fault of their
own.
When entering the box, the bus in front didn't look like it was
about to stop and there was no one on the crossing at that
point, so I should have had a clear exit.
Then when a pedestrian has stepped out unexpectedly, the bus has
had to stop forcing me to stay in the box. There were no
stationary vehicles in front of me when I entered the box.
I have the video from the council which I can share here if it
helps. Below is the image they have supplied with the PCN.
The local councillors have already been contacted by locals and
have been in touch with highway and parking officers about the
new yellow box.
Apparently they have been informed that drivers should not be
penalised for stopping to allow pedestrians to cross.
As you can see it's quite a long junction box. After the bus had
stopped and I was stuck in the box, I tried to very slowly creep
forward so I wasn't at a complete stop for more than 3 seconds.
[img]
HTML https://ibb.co/XrGZjtQh[/img]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 63116--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: MrChips
Date: March 18, 2025, 2:50 pm
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We'll need the video and a copy of the PCN with only be name and
address redacted.
#Post#: 63120--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: chris8
Date: March 18, 2025, 3:32 pm
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Here's the video:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lgo48tiUzYxpcGxnPPT4uqccfvbosF3d/view?usp=sharing
And the PCN is attached.
If anything else is required, please let me know.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 63124--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: MrChips
Date: March 18, 2025, 3:52 pm
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I've paused the video and moved forward incrementally second by
second and on each frame your car is further forward - sometimes
only marginally but further forward all the same. This suggests
that you were never fully stationary, so technically no offence
committed.
The location on the PCN is also typically vague for Redbridge.
High Street is half a mile long with several junctions. The box
is too new to feature on Google maps so without the benefit of
local knowledge the PCN is not specific enough in my view to
explain where this alleged offence occurred.
Ps stopping for pedestrians is a valid defence but unfortunately
you didn't stop for pedestrians, you stopped due to the bus
blocking your exit.
#Post#: 63132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 18, 2025, 4:31 pm
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It's a slam dunk contravention if you did stop - you just
charged in.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ALQzUZ0.gif
#Post#: 63146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: March 18, 2025, 4:53 pm
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I disagree, anything less than 5 seconds could be argued to be
de minimis, the video shows that if the OP's car did stop it
certainly stopped for less than a second.
#Post#: 63148--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 18, 2025, 4:57 pm
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--- Quote from: Grant Urismo link ---
>
> I disagree, anything less than 5 seconds could be argued to be
de minimis, the video shows that if the OP's car did stop it
certainly stopped for less than a second.
>
--- End Quote ---
5 seconds is an eternity. It's a no stopping contravention and
there are no de minimus rules but less than a second could win.
#Post#: 63155--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 18, 2025, 5:11 pm
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There is no definition of de minimis for cases like this, and
many adjudicators seem to think even a nano-second is too long !
#Post#: 63156--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: MrChips
Date: March 18, 2025, 5:15 pm
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But the car didn't actually stop.
Pause the video and move it along a small step at a time (e.g.
half a second). The car is always moving forward.
#Post#: 63165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wanstead, Redbridge Council, stopping in a yellow box
junction
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: March 18, 2025, 6:56 pm
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I agree, stepping through the video frame by frame shows the car
did not stop, and when it was going slowly the brake lights were
off.
Also, I'd argue the location isn't clear - the video shows a
nondescript bit of tarmac captioned "LOC6991" which is no help,
and the PCN states "High Street (WD)" which is both vague and
meaningless.
If this was my PCN I'd play it dumb and challenge on the grounds
that you have no idea what you're supposed to have done, and
include a Subject Access Request (SAR) for any evidence that
they might have that shows you actually stopped in a box
junction (including precise frame numbers) and for the location
they believe you were at at that time. Wrap up the challenge by
pointing out that any stop was de minimis (not so much because
they might accept it, more that if you sneak it in to something
that gets handed off to the SAR team, they might well hand you a
win by failing to consider). If nothing else this will cause
them a bit of work and make someone actually look closely at the
video.
I recommend you post a draft of what you intend to send to them
here, so we can polish it up if needed.
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