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#Post#: 74870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 5, 2025, 2:29 am
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None provided as not necessary for this type of contravention.
#Post#: 74876--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 5, 2025, 3:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks.
So, what type of contravention is it?
(5)Subject to subsection (6) below, for the purposes of this
section, a penalty charge is payable with respect to a motor
vehicle by the owner of the vehicle if the person driving or
propelling the vehicle—
(a)acts in contravention of a prescribed order; or
(b)fails to comply with an indication given by a scheduled
section 36 traffic sign
#Post#: 74879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: June 5, 2025, 4:02 am
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see
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
pages 37-38
also
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/regulatory-signs
and
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/the-signing-system
This was the TDRGD 2002 list of Section 36 signs and markings
--- Quote ---
>
> Application of section 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to
signs and disqualification for offences
>
> 10.—(1) Section 36 of the 1988 Act shall apply to each of the
following signs—
>
> (a)the signs shown in diagrams 601.1, 602, 606, 609, 610,
611.1, 615, 616, 626.2A, 629.2, 629.2A, 784.1, 953, 953.1, 7023,
7029 (except when varied to omit the legend “NO OVERTAKING”),
7031 and 7403;
>
> (b)the road marking shown in diagram 1001.3;
>
> (c)the road marking shown in diagram 1003;
>
> (d)the road markings shown in diagrams 1013.1, 1013.3 and
1013.4 insofar as those markings convey the requirements
specified in regulation 26;
>
> (e)the road markings shown in diagrams 1025.1, 1025.3 and
1025.4 insofar as those markings convey the prohibition
specified by regulation 29(1) and Part I of Schedule 19;
>
> (f)the road markings shown in diagrams 1042, 1042.1, 1043,
1044 and 1045;
>
> (g)the red light signal when displayed by the light signals
prescribed by regulation 33 or by regulation 35;
>
> (h)the light signals prescribed by regulation 33 as varied in
accordance with regulation 34 when they are displaying one or
more of the green arrow signals shown in diagrams 3001.2 or
3001.3 insofar as they convey any of the restrictions specified
in regulation 36(1)(f) or (g);
>
> (i)the light signal shown in diagram 3013.1;
>
> (j)the intermittent red light signals when displayed by the
sign shown in diagram 3014; and
>
> (k)the light signals prescribed by regulation 37 and shown in
diagrams 6031.1 and 6032.1 when indicating one of the
prohibitions prescribed by regulation 38.
>
> (2) The following signs are hereby specified for the purposes
of column 5 of the entry in Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic
Offenders Act 1988(1) relating to offences under section 36 of
the 1988 Act—
>
> (a)the signs shown in diagrams 601.1, 616, 629.2, 629.2A and
784.1;
>
> (b)the road marking shown in diagram 1001.3;
>
> (c)the road markings shown in diagram 1013.1, 1013.3 or 1013.4
insofar as those markings convey the requirements specified in
regulation 26;
>
> (d)the red light signal when displayed by the light signals
prescribed by regulation 33 or by regulation 35;
>
> (e)the light signals prescribed by regulation 33 as varied in
accordance with regulation 34 when they are displaying one or
more of the green arrow signals shown in diagrams 3001.2 or
3001.3 insofar as they convey any of the restrictions specified
in regulation 36(1)(f) or (g);
>
> (f)the intermittent red light signals when displayed by the
sign shown in diagram 3014; and
>
> (g)the light signals prescribed by regulation 37 and shown in
diagrams 6031.1 and 6032.1 when indicating one of the
prohibitions prescribed by regulation 38.
--- End Quote ---
In TSRGD 2016 the above contents were distirbuted amongs various
sections:
--- Quote ---
> (2002) 10 Application of section 36 of the Road Traffic Act
1988 to signs and disqualification for offences transferred to
(2016) Schedules 2, 3, 7, 9, 13, 14 & 15
--- End Quote ---
see also
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/introduction
#Post#: 74899--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 5, 2025, 6:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but what contravention is alleged by the council because
there are 2 options:
(a)acts in contravention of a prescribed order; or
(b)fails to comply with an indication given by a scheduled
section 36 traffic sign
We know what the sign on its own means, but on what basis was it
placed? I ask because I've never seen any council evidence
posted in these cases which clarifies this position.
From s36 RTA
2)A traffic sign shall not be treated for the purposes of this
section as having been lawfully placed unless either—
(a)the indication given by the sign is an indication of a
statutory prohibition, restriction or requirement, or
(b)it is expressly provided by or under any provision of the
Traffic Acts that this section shall apply to the sign or to
signs of a type of which the sign is one;
#Post#: 74907--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 5, 2025, 6:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> (b)it is expressly provided by or under any provision of the
Traffic Acts that this section shall apply to the sign or to
signs of a type of which the sign is one;
>
--- End Quote ---
This, the TSRGD expressly provide that section 36 of the Road
Traffic Act 1988 applies to that sign.
#Post#: 74934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 5, 2025, 8:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks.
Presumably they have not included this within any Order and
therefore the only indicators available are those on the ground,
namely a regulatory sign without the optional associated plate
indicating distance and the information plate for traffic
approaching from the opposite direction placed at the council's
discretion which notifies motorists that after this point alone
they are in 'a section of road where they have priority over
traffic from the opposite direction'.
The authority then issue PCNs for contraventions that have not
occurred in this 'section of road'. The council have determined
the extent of this section of road, and therefore the
restriction, and it does not lie with officers of the authority
to act in contrary to this policy or anyone else to infer a
different meaning, in effect to ascribe a right to motorists
which they do not have in law.
IMO.
#Post#: 75031--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 5, 2025, 4:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This matter has been argued before and it's won most of the
time, see rows 836 to 842 here
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit?gid=642784037#gid=642784037&range=A836.
#Post#: 75110--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 6, 2025, 6:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In this thread it has been suggested that the OP was at fault
because before they cleared the 'priority area' a car
approaching from the opposite direction had to slow.
This highlights what to me is the key issue: where does the
contravention occur?
IMO, it can only occur at the point that the motorist enters the
'priority area', not when they leave. The alternative would
involve the motorist having to exercise judgement as to when any
visible car approaching would reach the 'priority over
approaching vehicles' sign!
#Post#: 75525--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 9, 2025, 7:10 am
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To be tested very shortly.
#Post#: 75536--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles,
Salter's Hill
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 9, 2025, 8:30 am
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;D Website issue.
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