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#Post#: 62818--------------------------------------------------
No insurance help
By: adders Date: March 17, 2025, 5:48 am
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I have not needed to post on here since Pepipoo days, but sadly
find myself here again and hope you guys can help.
Firstly, this is not for me, its for my son. I know not ideal,
but I have good and honest relationship with him and so am
trying to help him out of the pickle he has got himself into
with the least amount of pain.
So on to the the the tail of woe. He is a new driver of less
than 2 years and is in possession of a COFP from the police for
driving without insurance. He was stopped by a marked police car
while driving a friends car in a car park. His friend has
received the same for driving my son’s car. Stupid I know, but
in his young mind he genuinely thought in a carpark he was ok.
Now it sounds bad, I know, and I went straight to the same place
as you probably, but having seen the dashcam footage from his
car it is not the teenage car meet I was expecting. It is
literally him and his friend driving in a straight line for 42
seconds at a max speed of 26mph to try each others cars. The car
park was quiet, although not deserted, and it was not part of a
big big car meet etc, although the carpark is known for that and
hence probably why the police was about.
Both he and his friend hold full black box insurance for their
respective cars. At a cost of ~2k per year i might add and both
are 'gold' drivers according to their apps.
To cut to the chase. He is guilty for sure and although harsh in
my humble opinion he has to face the consequences. The question
is what to do? If he accepts the COFP he is revoked almost
immediately and probably off the road for 6+ months while he
waits for a slot for theory and an even longer wait for a test
date. What are the court options? Ignorance is not a defence,
but could he go to court, plead guilty and ask for a different
punishment? Reduced points or a ban? If doing the court route he
would need legal help i am sure and so any recommendations of
specialist motoring lawyers from your experiences?
Its a mess and of his own doing, but as his old man i want to
help if i can. Your expertise and advice would be gratefully
received.
#Post#: 62839--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: JustLoveCars Date: March 17, 2025, 7:10 am
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It would be unusual for insurers to provide DOV cover - but just
to be 100% sure this has been checked? (It usually doesn't
apply to young drivers).
The insurer will need to be advised at some point.
In terms of sentencing, the court is unlikely to circumvent the
New Drivers Act to avoid revocation. The only long shot would
be a guilty with a Special Reasons Not To Endorse plea.
(Perhaps on the basis it was short distance)
#Post#: 62849--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: adders Date: March 17, 2025, 7:45 am
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Thank you. Yes I have checked the insurance on the off chance
and neither is covered.
#Post#: 62859--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: Logician Date: March 17, 2025, 8:37 am
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I can see two possible approaches, neither of which are very
hopeful:
1. Pleading guilty and arguing for special reasons not to
endorse on the basis of the shortness of distance driven, is
viable but it might be difficult to show that there was no
intention to drive further since the purpose of driving was to
try out the cars.
2. Depending on the circumstances of the car park, can the
prosecution show that it is a public place? For the offence it
must take place on a road or public place, it has been
established that a car park is not a road, but if it is open to
the public generally it is probably a public place.
#Post#: 62862--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: NewJudge Date: March 17, 2025, 8:41 am
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As far as court options go, the court cannot impose fewer than
six points. That is the minimum mandated by the statute. The
alternative sentence (a short ban) is unlikely to be successful.
Whilst the Magistrates’ guidance suggests that the effect of any
revocation should be considered, it only points out that fewer
points or a ban will avoid that consequence. However, It goes on
to say:
“An offender liable for an endorsement which will cause the
licence to be revoked under the new drivers’ provisions may ask
the court to disqualify rather than impose points. This will
avoid the requirement to take a further test. Generally, this
would be inappropriate since it would circumvent the clear
intention of Parliament.”
There is no doubt that the offence would not otherwise warrant a
ban to be considered and I would expect the court to follow the
above guidance.
As above, the only grounds for a “Special Reasons” argument to
be made would be on the basis of a short distance driven. I
don’t expect that to succeed. From your description it is not
clear whether the episode would have continued had he not been
stopped and in any case, there was absolutely no reason for it
to have taken place in the first place.
I think he must plan for revocation.
#Post#: 62867--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: adders Date: March 17, 2025, 8:56 am
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Thank you for the replies.
It's a fine mess he has landed himself in for sure, well both of
them for that matter. Special reasons might be a route, but it
sounds an expensive gamble with odds against. It was a short
distance and it had ended as they were approached. They had both
pulled into parking spaces and were not technically pulled over
or stopped by the police.
#Post#: 62872--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: JustLoveCars Date: March 17, 2025, 9:54 am
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[quote author=adders link=topic=5570.msg62867#msg62867
date=1742219769]
...but it sounds an expensive gamble with odds against.
[/quote]
The SRNTE is only valid with a guilty plea so costs aren't so
bad. But the odds are against him as there was no necessity to
'test drive' another car.
Obviously accepting a fixed penalty is instant 'game over'.
#Post#: 62894--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: Logician Date: March 17, 2025, 11:45 am
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If it is any consolation it could be worse as each of them was
not only driving with no insurance, but also permitted the other
to drive their car without insurance, so there was potential for
12 points each and therefore a 6 months totting
disqualification.
#Post#: 62917--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: Freecall Date: March 17, 2025, 12:33 pm
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Also, looking on the bright(ish) side, revocation doesn't have
to stop him driving.
He can apply immediately for a new provisional licence.
#Post#: 62939--------------------------------------------------
Re: No insurance help
By: adders Date: March 17, 2025, 1:33 pm
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Not sure he sees any bright side at the moment. It’s quite a
punishment for a minutes madness, but is what it is.
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