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       #Post#: 62766--------------------------------------------------
       Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over the 5
       0km/hr speed limit.
       By: AndyTea Date: March 16, 2025, 1:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Received a large fine from France for going 2km/hr over the
       50km/hr speed limit. I feel they're being pedantic and expecting
       300 euros for that is absurd. Also probably probably only
       chasing it because i'm English.
       I should mention that i'm currently resident in Portugal and i
       know laws have changed to make it easier for EU countries to
       chase across borders, but i'm not feeling inclined to pay 300km
       for what most countries would consider within the bounds of a
       measurement error.
       Looks like it comes directly from the Government Department,
       Direction Generale des Finances Publiques.
       What are my options?
       #Post#: 62769--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: andy_foster Date: March 16, 2025, 1:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=AndyTea link=topic=5565.msg62766#msg62766
       date=1742148728]
       What are my options?
       [/quote]
       Ask someone who is likely to have the first idea of if/how
       French speeding fines are enforced in Portugal, or ask us.
       Someone here might know, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.
       N.B. Whilst this is technically a live case, it does not concern
       British criminal law.
       #Post#: 62772--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: AndyTea Date: March 16, 2025, 1:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I asked ChatGPT as it's pretty good at French and it said this:
       Confirm the recorded speed. In France, there’s a technical
       deduction for speed camera readings. If the measured speed was
       52 km/h, they should have deducted 5%, making it 49 km/h,
       meaning no fine.
       So my current plan is to appeal (in Portuguese as i don't see
       any expectation on me to be able to speak French), quoting that
       law, and ask them to confirm the speed they recorded me at.. and
       then basically use appeals to make it time consuming for them to
       try and enforce for 2km/hr.
       Does that sound like the right approach to anyone with more
       experience here? or maybe making contact is a bad idea as once
       they get a sniff they'll chase it harder.
       #Post#: 62791--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: roythebus Date: March 16, 2025, 5:03 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If it's any help, I got a speeding ticket from France about 3
       years ago, on the approaches to Dunkirk, I can't remember the
       speed. The ticket came through well over a year past the event.
       I never replied and never heard any more about it despite going
       back through France several times since then.
       #Post#: 62792--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: DWMB2 Date: March 16, 2025, 5:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=AndyTea link=topic=5565.msg62772#msg62772
       date=1742150130]
       I asked ChatGPT
       [/quote]
       I know nothing about French law, but I would beware the perils
       of using ChatGPT for legal advice:
       [quote author=DWMB2 link=topic=5330.msg60345#msg60345
       date=1741008236]
       I once asked ChatGPT how many time the letter 'r' appears in the
       word 'strawberry'. This was its response:
       [img width=823 height=224]
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/cCPEYIQ.png[/img]
       I'm not sure I would rely on it for competent legal advice.
       [/quote]
       #Post#: 62838--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: BertB Date: March 17, 2025, 7:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       IIRC, the speed shown on the ticket is after the 5km/h reduction
       is applied (5km/h up to 100km/h, then 5% for 100km/h+). So your
       speed would have been 57km/h, reduced to 52km/h for the notice.
       300 Euro seems high for that sort of speed excess though. Was it
       definitely 52/50 and not 52/30?
       @baroudor was fairly knowledgeable on the French penal system,
       but I'm not sure of he is still on here.
       #Post#: 62865--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: AndyTea Date: March 17, 2025, 8:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [member=670]BertB[/member]
       > Was it definitely 52/50 and not 52/30?
       Yes, definitely. The letter says 'going less than 5km/hr over
       speed limit' (in french).
       #Post#: 62874--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: baroudeur Date: March 17, 2025, 10:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=BertB link=topic=5565.msg62838#msg62838
       date=1742213020]
       IIRC, the speed shown on the ticket is after the 5km/h reduction
       is applied (5km/h up to 100km/h, then 5% for 100km/h+). So your
       speed would have been 57km/h, reduced to 52km/h for the notice.
       300 Euro seems high for that sort of speed excess though. Was it
       definitely 52/50 and not 52/30?
       @baroudor was fairly knowledgeable on the French penal system,
       but I'm not sure of he is still on here.
       [/quote]
       You were clocked at 57 km/h with 5 km/h 'margin of tolerance'
       taken off to result in  52 over the limit.
       If you are resident in Portugal with a Portuguese registered car
       you should have received an Avis de Contravention at your
       Portuguese address. The €300 penalty suggests it is a second
       penalty notice which has increased because the original Avis was
       ignored.
       You can pay or expect a further demand shortly for a higher
       penalty.  The details of the offence will be held on a permis
       virtuel (ghost licence) which could be accessed should the car
       be stopped in France.
       Edit:  I've just checked.
       Penalty for 52 in a 50 would be €135 reduced to €90 if paid
       within 30 days then increased to €300 after 60 days.
       Edit 2:
       You will get 20% discount from the €300 if it is paid within 30
       days of the date on it. :)
       I can't find the detail but I think the next stage will be an
       increase to €1500 when the case gets reviewed by the court.
       #Post#: 64462--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: AndyTea Date: March 27, 2025, 9:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I decided to appeal the fine as Under European Union
       regulations, particularly the EU Cross-Border Enforcement
       Directive, authorities are generally required to send
       notifications of traffic fines in a language that the recipient
       can reasonably understand, which should ideally be the language
       of the country where the vehicle is registered (in this case,
       Portuguese).
       I don't think there's a legally enforceable reason for them to
       assume that i can understand the contents of a letter sent to me
       in French, which i can't just that it's some sort of fine, and
       that would make the enforcement of the letter dubious.
       I'm going to send an appeal telling them that i can't understand
       their letter and suggesting they communicate in Portuguese, or
       through the Portuguese authorities. Also letting them know that
       i'm mostly living in a camper van and rarely at the address they
       are communicating with and so am unlikely to be able to meet the
       deadlines they appear to be imposing, to try and get some leeway
       regarding the extra fines.
       #Post#: 64923--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a 300 euro fine from France for going 2km/hr over t
       he 50km/hr speed limit.
       By: BertB Date: March 31, 2025, 4:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=AndyTea link=topic=5565.msg64462#msg64462
       date=1743087310]
       I'm going to send an appeal telling them that i can't understand
       their letter and suggesting they communicate in Portuguese, or
       through the Portuguese authorities.[/quote]
       It might be funny if you sent this request to only communicate
       in Portuguese in English, or any language other than French or
       Portuguese. Probably not very productive, but mildly funny all
       the same.
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