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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 62754--------------------------------------------------
Speeding NIP 50 in a 40 however no terminal limit signs and what
signs are present are the wrong size and cannot be seen
DIR By: sprintevo
Date: March 16, 2025, 10:28 am
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I have been sent a NIP from Nottingahmshire police for 50 in a
40 limit. The road in question leads from the M1 and is dual
carriageway national speed limit. It ends with a roundabout then
into a road heading tonot Nottingahm in the Clifton area with 2
lanes on my side and a single lane on the other side, but not a
dual carriageway as there is no central reservation. It is not
in a built up area. I was clocked at 50 mphon this section and
the road has a speed limit of 40 Mph. I am a cautious driver,
was not is a rush and looked into why I did not know this
stretch of dual lane carriageway had a reduced limit. Using
google maps , around 50 feet from the roundabout there is a
small 200mm 40 mph sign mounted low on a post on the left hand
side, this post is damaged and bent backwards away from the
direction of traffic and the sign is around 5 feet from the
ground. On the right hand side there is a similar 40 mph sign
200mm diameter fixed to a lamp post, however this one is totally
obscured by anti dazzle panels located in the central
reservation at the roundabout and cannot be seen at driver level
until atound 20 feet from the sign, it can be easily obscured by
traffic in the approaching lane. There are no terminal speed
limit signs of required min 600mm diameter at the start of this
section and the previous section of road was national speed
limit dual carriageway 70mph. At no stage along the 40mph
stretch of road to the next roundabout are there any repeater
signs for 40mph. Having checked the Traffic Signs Manual
chapter 3 regulatory signs on the government website there
should be 2 x terminal signs on posts either side of the road
with at least 600 mm diameter notifying the start of the 40 mph
limit. and then repeater signs along the road to the next
junction. I beleive in court that my mitigation is that there
is not suffiecnet indication that this stretch of road has a
reduced speed limit from the one leading to in prior to the
roundabout. The local authority have provided the regulation
signage as required, and the smaller than specified signage is
1. invisible to the drivers, 2. located in a damaged post and
easily obscured by other traffic. How eould any driver know
that this section of road, whihc appears to be exactly the same
as the national speed miit road has a reduced speed requirement.
I have confirmed I am the keeper and would plan to represent
myself in court, but want the opinion of the forum on this
matter. If not guilty due to the mitigating circumstances, I
would argue that Nottinghamshire police may be aware of the lack
of signage and is using this stretch of road as a cash cow. and
that all previous prosecution, fines and penalty points for
speeding on this section should be null and void and refunded.
What are your thoughts?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 62755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding NIP 50 in a 40 however no terminal limit signs and
what signs are present are the wrong size and cannot be
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: March 16, 2025, 10:41 am
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A Google Maps link may be more helpful than a single screenshot.
Edit: I've found the roundabout - Google Maps suggests that if
you're heading towards the roundabout from the direction of the
M1, you would pass these 2 large terminal signs:
Link here
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/hhvZ1mPmyF9HkyHK6?g_st=ac
HTML https://i.imgur.com/jmgv0Dk.png
#Post#: 62756--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding NIP 50 in a 40 however no terminal limit signs and
what signs are present are the wrong size and cannot be
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: March 16, 2025, 10:54 am
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From the screenshot provided...
There is a system of street lighting, so (as this is not a
motorway) the speed limit would be 30mph unless there is a
traffic order to the contrary. In practical terms this means
that the speed limit would be 30mph unless there are signs to
the contrary.
The 40mph repeater in the screenshot appears to be perfectly
visible.
As there is a system of street lighting, the defence of
inadequate signage (s. 85(4) Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984)
does not apply. However, if you can persuade the court that a
careful and competent driver would not have been aware of the
40mph limit, there is potential for Special Reasons Not To
Endorse, or if your evidence is sufficiently compelling, for the
prosecution to drop the case.
#Post#: 62762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding NIP 50 in a 40 however no terminal limit signs and
what signs are present are the wrong size and cannot be
DIR By: Freecall
Date: March 16, 2025, 12:13 pm
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As andy_foster says, there appears to be a whole system of
street lighting in your photo.
I am not therefore sure how any of the other factors are
relevant.
#Post#: 62768--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding NIP 50 in a 40 however no terminal limit signs and
what signs are present are the wrong size and cannot be
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: March 16, 2025, 1:20 pm
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And as DWMB2 has already said, if coming from the direction of
the M1 along the A453 (Remembrance Way) the OP would have passed
the 40mph terminal signs just before reaching the Mill Hill
roundabout
#Post#: 62785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding NIP 50 in a 40 however no terminal limit signs and
what signs are present are the wrong size and cannot be
DIR By: sprintevo
Date: March 16, 2025, 3:43 pm
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I reviewed it all again and didn’t realise there are terminal
signs on the approach to the roundabout so they are bang to
rights. Just hope I get a driving course option thanks for the
feedback
#Post#: 62788--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding NIP 50 in a 40 however no terminal limit signs and
what signs are present are the wrong size and cannot be
DIR By: jfollows
Date: March 16, 2025, 4:18 pm
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Course generally offered for recorded speeds up to and including
53mph in a 40mph limit.
Course not offered if you drag the process out too long, so in
your interest to reply promptly.
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