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#Post#: 62043--------------------------------------------------
APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: olly1234
Date: March 12, 2025, 4:37 am
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Hi All,
In the space of 4 days 2 PCNs received through our leasing
company. Grouped together as both APCOA.
The car is leased from a leasing company.
First PCN - Redhill Station
The car was parked and parking paid for through the APCOA QR
Code displayed, but still a PCN from APCOA has been received,
through the leasing company, for "use of Private Car Park
without making a valid payment".No receipt of parking/payment
when parking was paid but there is a bank statement showing the
payment to APCOA with date & time. Searching the APCOA receipt
finder the car can't be found.
Second PCN - Heathrow T4 drop off
The car drove through the drop off zone - didn't realise they
had got to the end of it before exiting, and circling back
around. Second time stopped in the drop off zone for pick-up
before exiting as usual. Heathrow Terminal Drop Off charge paid
later that evening for one drop off (as that was all that was
showing on the website). PCN received for "Use of Drop Off Zone
without making a valid payment".
Any help greatly appreciated in appealing both of these.
TIA
#Post#: 62045--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: jfollows
Date: March 12, 2025, 4:49 am
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Please read
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
#Post#: 62046--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: olly1234
Date: March 12, 2025, 5:07 am
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PCNs attached.
Should also add that I believe the leasing company has already
paid the PCNs
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 62055--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: March 12, 2025, 5:41 am
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--- Quote from: olly1234 link ---
>
> Should also add that I believe the leasing company has already
paid the PCNs
>
--- End Quote ---
You need to confirm this as it will entirely change the
approach.
If the charges have been paid, then APCOA are out of the
equation entirely, and it is instead a dispute between you and
your leasing company.
#Post#: 62061--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: olly1234
Date: March 12, 2025, 6:01 am
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Confirmed that the leasing company has paid the Redhill Station
PCN:
We have paid this for one of the following reasons:
- Legislation requires immediate payment by the registered
keeper
- We have been instructed to pay on your behalf by your employer
- The offence has been escalated back to [Leasing Company]
- We are unable to transfer liability.
What do you need to do?
- If you accept liability no further action is required. Please
do not make any further payment directly to the issuing
authority.
- If you do not accept liability, please appeal directly to the
authority. Instructions on how to appeal are included on the
notification. To enable you to speak with the authority we have
attached a Third-Party Authorisation letter. You will need to
send this with your appeal.
Please note, the driver of the vehicle is responsible for appeal
and as such, we are unable to do this on your behalf.
For both PCNs, the leasing company has sent Third Party
Authorisation letters to APCOA putting them in contact with the
company that leases the car (the Ltd company that the Driver is
a director of)
#Post#: 62088--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: b789
Date: March 12, 2025, 8:22 am
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If your lease company has paid both the Parking Charge Notice
(PCN) for the airport drop off and the fake Penalty Notice (PN),
then, unless the terms of your lease specifically allow them to
pay invoices from unregulated private parking companies, you
have been screwed royally.
What they should have done is simply transfer liability to you
as the Hirer of the vehicle and that would have been the end of
the matter for the lease company. Once the liability is
transferred, APCOA is supposed to then send a Notice to Hirer
(NtH) in your name and you could have easily dealt with this.
Nobody who is here receiving advice ever pays a penny to APCOA.
The PCN is very easily disposed of by informing APCOA that, as
the Hirer or Keeper, you are under no legal obligation to
identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company
and as the alleged contravention was on airport land, it is not
relevant land and so there can be no Hirer/Keeper liability.
APCOA would have cancelled the PCN in response.
As for the fake PN, that is part of a huge extortion racket that
APCOA have going on and should be reported to Action Fraud.
APCOA cannot issue a Penalty Notice for breach of railway bylaws
as they are not the authority that has the statutory powers to
do so. Only the Train Operating Company (TOC) or whoever owns
the land where the station car park is located, such as Network
Rail can issue a PN. Any penalty that is properly issued and
then paid, should go to the public purse, not APCOAs bank
account.
Any real PN can only be enforced through the magistrates court
and that would require the TOC to lay evidence to the court and
obtain a summons where it could then be challenged. The burden
of proof in a criminal matter is much, much higher than for a
civil contractual dispute and must be beyond a reasonable doubt.
Because APCOA has set a fake PN, it is nothing but an "offered
contract" that no-one is obliged to accept. Basically, the are
using unlawful language in their offered contract that if you
bribe them £100, they will not criminally prosecute you in the
magistrates court, which they cannot and would not do anyway.
The language used in the offered contract is unlawful because it
suggests that they have powers that they do not possess and
threatens you with criminal liability which simply is not true.
However, this is all moot if the feckwits at your lease company
have gone and paid the charges. Your only recourse is to sue
them for the amount they have unlawfully taken from you. Check
what your lease says about "parking charges". In most cases,
they only refer to "fines" or "penalties" from "authorities" or
the police.
It really p!sses me off when these companies simple pay
speculative invoices from the likes of APCOA or any other
unregulated private parking company and then tell the Hirer that
it is not their problem anymore. They have breached the CRA 2015
by denying you any opportunity to appeal.
If they collect any payments they have made that you dispute you
should have those payments stopped. If by card, make a
chargeback. If by direct debit, you dispute it with your bank.
Edit: I have just read back through your previous post. You
lease company has been conned into paying the fake PN. You can
sue them for any charge they have made to you. They have been
conned by the wording on the fake PN. This can be reported to
the police for investigation. APCOA have absolutely no authority
to issue PNs. The DfT even made this clear in a 2018 response to
POPLA where they said they expect any breach of a railway bylaw
for a minot parking offence to be dealt with under civil
contract law and not bylaw 24.1 which is for more serious
offences. Parking offences were decriminalised back in 1999 with
the introduction of the Road Traffic Act.
For the airport PCN, when you receive the NtH, just appeal with
the following:
--- Quote ---
> I am the Hirer. APCOA cannot hold a Hirer liable for any
alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control.
As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they
cannot use the PoFA provisions because Heathrow Airport is not
'relevant land'.
>
> If Heathrow Airport wanted to hold Hirers liable under Airport
Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another
matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is
also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner
and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a
penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a
bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has
relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver
only.
>
> The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have
no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete
waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 62092--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: March 12, 2025, 8:34 am
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> They have breached the CRA 2015 by denying you any opportunity
to appeal.
>
--- End Quote ---
We may need to use a different piece of legislation. From my
reading of the OP's posts, it seems that he is not the hirer of
the car, but rather, a limited company (of which he is a
director) is the hirer, and it is this company that has a
contractual arrangement with the lease company. On that basis,
the company will not meet the definition of a 'consumer' for the
purposes of the CRA.
#Post#: 62096--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: b789
Date: March 12, 2025, 8:46 am
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--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote author=b789 link=topic=5501.msg62088#msg62088
date=1741785745]
> They have breached the CRA 2015 by denying you any opportunity
to appeal.
>
--- End Quote ---
We may need to use a different piece of legislation. From my
reading of the OP's posts, it seems that he is not the hirer of
the car, but rather, a limited company (of which he is a
director) is the hirer, and it is this company that has a
contractual arrangement with the lease company. On that basis,
the company will not meet the definition of a 'consumer' for the
purposes of the CRA.
[/quote]
I stand corrected. In my red haze at reading the lease company
has paid a fraudulent invoice, I did not notice that the Hirer
is to an individual, which is even more reason to challenge
this.
#Post#: 62104--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: olly1234
Date: March 12, 2025, 9:30 am
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Thank you all so much for your detailed responses (which
admittedly has caused significant red haze for me as well!).
Super clear on the airport PCN, will await the PCN NtH sent
directly to me as opposed to the one forwarded on by the leasing
company, and then use the wording below - very much appreciated.
On the fake PN:
The wording in my lease agreement is: "Except only for vehicle
excise duty fees (see Clause 3), it is your responsibility to
pay all parking fines, speeding fines, congestion charges and
all other fines, charges, fees, duties and tolls that become
payable to any authority or other organisation in respect of the
use of the Vehicle, including any fines payable by us in respect
of any failure by you to continuously insure the Vehicle
("Vehicle Charge"). If we receive a notice of intended
prosecution or a private parking charge notice relating to the
Vehicle we will, where reasonably possible, transfer liability
by providing your details to the issuing authority/relevant
operator so that you can deal with the matter directly. We will
charge you an administration fee of £12 plus VAT for this
service. For all other fines, penalties, charges and notices,
or if we need to do so to avoid us incurring a liability on your
behalf, we will make payment without giving you prior notice,
and recharge it to you."
--- Quote ---
> you can sue them for any charge they have made to you. They
have been conned by the wording on the fake PN. This can be
reported to the police for investigation. APCOA have absolutely
no authority to issue PNs. The DfT even made this clear in a
2018 response to POPLA where they said they expect any breach of
a railway bylaw for a minot parking offence to be dealt with
under civil contract law and not bylaw 24.1 which is for more
serious offences. Parking offences were decriminalised back in
1999 with the introduction of the Road Traffic Act.
--- End Quote ---
I'm going in hard then against the leasing company to get them
to reimburse me with the threat of legal action
#Post#: 62122--------------------------------------------------
Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
DIR By: olly1234
Date: March 12, 2025, 10:51 am
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With the help of ChatGPT have drafted the following for the car
leasing company. This not being my forte, is there anything you
would call out?
Subject: Urgent Complaint – Unlawful Payment of Penalty Notice
to APCOA
Dear [Leasing Company],
I am writing to formally raise a strong objection regarding your
decision to pay a so-called "Penalty Notice" issued by APCOA. It
is deeply concerning that [Leasing Company], as a responsible
leasing company, has failed to recognise that APCOA has
absolutely no legal authority to issue Penalty Notices for
breach of railway bylaws.
To be absolutely clear: APCOA is not a statutory authority and
does not possess the legal power to enforce railway bylaw
penalties. Only the Train Operating Company (TOC) or the
landowner, such as Network Rail, has the statutory power to
issue a legitimate Penalty Notice. Furthermore, any properly
issued penalty would be payable to the public purse, not to a
private entity like APCOA.
The Department for Transport (DfT) made this explicitly clear in
a 2018 response to POPLA, stating that they expect any minor
parking breach at a railway station to be dealt with under civil
contract law, not under railway bylaw 24.1, which is reserved
for more serious offences. In addition, parking offences were
decriminalised in 1999 with the introduction of the Road Traffic
Act. This reinforces the fact that APCOA’s so-called “Penalty
Notice” is not a legally enforceable fine, but rather an offered
contract that no one is legally obliged to accept.
APCOA’s use of misleading and unlawful language – implying that
payment is necessary to avoid criminal prosecution – is wholly
deceptive and legally baseless. Any genuine bylaw offence would
require a TOC to lay evidence before a magistrates’ court, where
the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. APCOA,
however, has no authority to issue, enforce, or prosecute any
Penalty Notice. They are deliberately misrepresenting their
powers to mislead the public into paying charges they are not
legally obligated to pay.
By paying this invalid demand, [Leasing Company] has effectively
legitimised an unlawful claim and encouraged APCOA’s deceptive
practices. Furthermore, if you have made any charge to me as a
result of this improper payment, I reserve the right to take
legal action against [Leasing Company] for unlawfully charging
me for a bogus penalty that should never have been paid in the
first place.
I expect an immediate response from [Leasing Company]
confirming:
1.
the notice.
2.
from APCOA.
3.
face legal action.
This matter is one of legal principle and fairness. APCOA’s
actions are misleading, unlawful, and deceptive. Your compliance
with their baseless demands only emboldens them to continue such
practices.
I strongly urge you to rectify this situation immediately.
I look forward to your prompt response.
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