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#Post#: 61856--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 11, 2025, 6:18 am
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Take picture of the whole bay length - now probably two bays -
and any parking signs.
We don't have access to Newham's traffweb. I can't see an order
for removing part of the bay in the Gazette, only one for a
space outside no 4 on the other side of the road.
The bay parking sign disappeared at some point and wasn't there
in 2022.
#Post#: 61875--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: Jill
Date: March 11, 2025, 7:17 am
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Not sure if I’m doing this right,
HTML https://postimg.cc/gallery/YQ6BD0B
#Post#: 61899--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 11, 2025, 9:00 am
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Are there any parking signs - upright residents bay parking
signs - by the two bays. Look out if you are using these bays -
do you have a permit?
It looks rather amateurish and that the resident has got
over-involved.
I can't see you losing this given the picture of lines being
painted out around your car. Also the pics from the other PCN
are also clear it was a continuous parking bay.
#Post#: 61903--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: Jill
Date: March 11, 2025, 9:13 am
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There’s no signs, Iv got an ongoing dispute over the same bay
that mrmustard has kindly offered to help me with and that 1 is
Contravention code: 12, I don’t have a permit because we didn’t
need it for those bays, until CEO decided we did
#Post#: 61919--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: March 11, 2025, 10:01 am
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On 6 March I asked Traffic Orders at Newham to send me the
traffic order for the entire length of bay and queried whether
it has recently been changed to two bays with a gap.
The answer to that will help.
An amazing co-incidence that the spray paint on the gates and
the bay were painted on the same day, wink. Also, the transverse
line should not be solid from the edge of the bay to the kerb.
#Post#: 61929--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: March 11, 2025, 11:18 am
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There’s no signs, Iv got an ongoing dispute over the same bay
that mrmustard has kindly offered to help me with and that 1 is
Contravention code: 12, I don’t have a permit because we didn’t
need it for those bays, until CEO decided we did
Post a link to this thread pl, it'll resolve the current issue
IMO.
#Post#: 61930--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: March 11, 2025, 11:19 am
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HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/newham-parking-ticket/msg60799/#msg60799
#Post#: 61982--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: March 11, 2025, 3:48 pm
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On 14 Jan. the authority issued a PCN to my vehicle under code
12. This means that as at this date the authority considered
that the location was within a designated parking place.
The location was given as Holbrook Road, opp hse 4.
On 21 Feb. the authority issued another PCN citing contravention
code 26(parking adjacent to a dropped footway etc.).
The location was given as: Holbrook Road. Opp hse 4
I challenged this PCN and on *** the authority responded by
letter rejecting my representations. This letter helpfully
referred me to the governing legislation in this case which is
the Traffic Management Act 2004. Further research shows that the
relevant provision is s86. They also referred me erroneously to
the London Local Authorities Act 2000 however this is nonsense
as no part of this legislation is relevant. I think they meant
s14 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act
2003( 14Parking at dropped footways) but even this is incorrect
because that provision was repealed by Schedule 12 of the later
TMA. Your grasp of applicable legislation is woeful.
Returning to the relevant provision under the TMA(86Prohibition
of parking at dropped footways etc.), I have extracted its
essential elements below:
a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway adjacent to a
footway, cycle track or verge where—
(a)the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet
the level of the carriageway for the purpose of—
......
(iii)assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway
across the footway, cycle track or verge;
This is subject to the following exceptions.
2)The first exception is where the vehicle is parked wholly
within a designated parking place or any other part of the
carriageway where parking is specifically authorised.
So, on 14 Jan. the location had to be a designated parking place
in order for that PCN to be valid.
But on 21 Feb. it couldn't have been so designated otherwise the
first exception to the alleged contravention would have applied.
At this point, I would refer the authority to another piece of
legislation with which the council should be familiar, namely
The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and
Wales) Regulations 1996 (LATOR), regulation 18 of which makes
provision for traffic signs as follows:
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the
order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to
secure—
(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the
road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making
authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate
information as to the effect of the order is made available to
persons using the road;
(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order
remains in force..
But as can be seen in the CEO's photos and mine which are
enclosed there are not any traffic signs within the parking
place. And they must be placed 'in or within' the parking place
because this is where the council's Traffic Management Orders
require.
So:
If the parking place is designated, which was the authority's
position on 14 Jan, then it was improperly marked by virtue of
there not being any traffic signs conveying the restriction and
therefore unenforceable, or
If the parking place was not designated, which is the only basis
on which the PCN issued on 21 Feb. could be valid(otherwise the
first exception to the dropped footway prohibition would apply)
then the first PCN is again invalid because the parking place
did not exist in law As regards the 21 Feb PCN, the fact that
markings(which are classified as 'traffic signs' as the
authority should know - s64 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
refers) are present means that a motorist is entitled to
consider that length of street to be a designated parking place,
whether there's a TMO provision or not, and therefore the first
exception applies and that PCN must be cancelled.
Or perhaps the parking place was designated and then
de-designated in part with the road markings removed and
amended. If this is the case then it is the authority's burden
to prove this by reference to an amending TMO which it should be
simple for them to provide. Even then, as my car was parked with
the markings in situ I was entitled to rely upon the first
exception before the council's contractors appeared as can be
seen in the photos.
Some thoughts..
#Post#: 63579--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: March 21, 2025, 5:41 am
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I now have the traffic order, The Newham (Stratford South East)
(Parking Places) (No 1) Order 2010 which runs to 57 pages so I
will simply give you the page which includes the bay, item 146
which is one bay 20m long which would hold 4 average cars.
The recent painting had therefore not been done by the council
as I suggested to the council that the bay might recently have
been altered.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/xtPcHPX6/tmo-extract.png
HTML https://ibb.co/RkZMyZYc
#Post#: 69761--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2nd newham PCN
DIR By: Jill
Date: May 2, 2025, 11:00 am
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Update, iv received notice of rejection
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/V618R4FK/IMG-2782.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/qtmSBsSK
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