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#Post#: 61738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: March 10, 2025, 3:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
>
HTML https://change-address-v5c.service.gov.uk
>
--- End Quote ---
Can I proceed to:
"As you have never received the original Notice to Keeper
(NtK), you can send a formal complaint to EPS and request a copy
of the original NtK and require them to evidence the actual date
they sent the NtK."
Since I can still collect the post from our previous address so
as not to hold things up while waiting on a replacement log
book.
#Post#: 61742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: b789
Date: March 10, 2025, 3:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DontStandForNonsense link ---
>
>
> Can I get Euro Parking Services to update our address with
them before correcting the logbook address?
>
--- End Quote ---
Update with whom? The whole point of the DRN is get EPS to
update THEIR records, not the DVLA records. That' your job. Just
get the DRN sent and be done with it.
#Post#: 61805--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: March 11, 2025, 2:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> [quote author=DontStandForNonsense
link=topic=5454.msg61607#msg61607 date=1741608238]
>
> Can I get Euro Parking Services to update our address with
them before correcting the logbook address?
>
--- End Quote ---
Update with whom? The whole point of the DRN is get EPS to
update THEIR records, not the DVLA records. That' your job. Just
get the DRN sent and be done with it.
[/quote]
I was a bit confused but after re-reading your original response
I think I'm back on track.
Before I write to EPS.
Will highlighting that they have the wrong number not trigger
them to:
1. Raise it with DVLA and get me into trouble with them for not
having updated DVLA after moving house?
2. Reject my formal complaint on the basis of me no longer
living at the address they will claim to have used? (even though
I do still have access to my post and nothing was received)
Just a thought, will it not be less risky holding fire on the
DRN while raising the complaint, because I do have total access
to post there AND in theory, you can have more than one home
with different things registered at each address?
#Post#: 61815--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: March 11, 2025, 3:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you're overthinking this - they're not going to report
you to the DVLA.
#Post#: 61831--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: March 11, 2025, 4:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ok but do you think it would undermine my complaint for not
having received their notice to keeper?
It might encourage them to stand more firmly behind an argument
that I never received it because I no longer lived there (which
would put it as my fault for not updating my address)
#Post#: 61883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: b789
Date: March 11, 2025, 7:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
STOP overthinking this. Just send the DRN to the DPO. Nothing
adverse other than the possibility of you getting a CCJ by
default is going to happen.
Sending a DRN affects nothing else.
#Post#: 61887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: March 11, 2025, 8:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> STOP overthinking this. Just send the DRN to the DPO. Nothing
adverse other than the possibility of you getting a CCJ by
default is going to happen.
>
> Sending a DRN affects nothing else.
>
--- End Quote ---
OK cheers
#Post#: 69928--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: May 4, 2025, 5:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> STOP overthinking this. Just send the DRN to the DPO. Nothing
adverse other than the possibility of you getting a CCJ by
default is going to happen.
>
> Sending a DRN affects nothing else.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi,
1. Sent the DRN but heard nothing back.
2. Got a replacement logbook and updated the address
3. Received a Solicitors letter as linked below :/ (Letter dated
24 April 2025 well after I sent the DRN?)
Not sure what to do now. Should I Write to the solicitors or EPS
to chase up the DRN?
Also, reading back over the thread to remind myself of the
details, I stupidly forgot to raise the complaint with EPS. (Is
it still worth doing?)
Solicitor Letter
HTML https://photos.app.goo.gl/uFivryHerLZhxAC29
#Post#: 69938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: b789
Date: May 4, 2025, 6:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What date did you send the DRN and how did you send it? If by
post, did you get a free proof of posting certificate from the
post office? If by email, did you CC in yourself?
What "complaint" did you fail to send to EPS? Are you saying you
failed to request a copy of the original NtK?
You now have a Letter of Claim (LoC) which means that you are
going to receive an N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC in the post
after 30 days from. the date of the LoC.
If you doubt follow the advice and then come asking for further
advice, why do you expect us to help you?
For now, you respond to the LoC with the following:
--- Quote ---
> Dear Sirs,
>
> Your Letter Before Claim dated 24th April 2025 contains
insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of
evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in
complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt
Claims.
>
> I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to
identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal
presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any
particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver as
per VCS v Edward (20230) [H0KF6C9C].
>
> I will defend any claim vigorously and seek costs in relation
to your client’s unreasonable and vexatious conduct under Part
27.14(2)(g)
>
> As your letter lacks specificity and breaches the requirements
of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs
3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2) as well as the Practice Direction -
Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)), you must treat
this letter as a formal request for all of the
documents/information that the protocol now requires your client
to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without
complying with that protocol.
>
> As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the
requirements of both the Practice Direction and the Pre-Action
Protocol for debt claims and your client, as a serial litigator
of debt claims, should likewise be aware of them. As you (and
your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind
all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim.
Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the
claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to
enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate
a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring
the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.
It is embarrassing that a firm of Solicitors are sending a
consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter Before Claim' in
complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and
the Pre-Action Protocol.
>
> I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim
that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the
Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a
formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol.
Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by
sending me the following information/documents:
>
> [indent]1. An explanation of the cause of action
> 2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
> 3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of
POFA 2012
> 4. what the details of the claim are; for how long it is
claimed the vehicle was parked, how the monies being claimed
arose and have been calculated
> 5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the
date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and
provide to me a copy of that contract.
> 6. If the claim is for a contractual breach, photographs
showing the vehicle was parked in contravention of said
contract.
> 7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
> 8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under
which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by
the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).
> 9. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
> 10. Photographs of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of
font, height at which displayed) at the time of any alleged
contravention.
> 11. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any
interest and administrative or other charges added
> 12. Am I to understand that the additional £60 represents what
is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett
or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why
I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
> 13. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this
damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?
>
> I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs
6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order
to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).
>
> If your client does not provide me with this information then
I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb
Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch),
Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part
20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church
Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann
Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions
on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant
to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice
Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
>
> Until your client has complied with its obligations and
provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to
the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it,
and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court
time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client
do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph
15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this
information is provided.
>
> Yours faithfully
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 70362--------------------------------------------------
Re: Euro Parking Services - Unpaid Parking Charges Notice -
Passed to Empira
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: May 7, 2025, 5:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> What date did you send the DRN and how did you send it? If by
post, did you get a free proof of posting certificate from the
post office? If by email, did you CC in yourself?
>
> What "complaint" did you fail to send to EPS? Are you saying
you failed to request a copy of the original NtK?
>
> You now have a Letter of Claim (LoC) which means that you are
going to receive an N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC in the post
after 30 days from. the date of the LoC.
>
> If you doubt follow the advice and then come asking for
further advice, why do you expect us to help you?
>
> For now, you respond to the LoC with the following:
>
> [quote]Dear Sirs,
>
> Your Letter Before Claim dated 24th April 2025 contains
insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of
evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in
complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt
Claims.
>
> I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to
identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal
presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any
particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver as
per VCS v Edward (20230) [H0KF6C9C].
>
> I will defend any claim vigorously and seek costs in relation
to your client’s unreasonable and vexatious conduct under Part
27.14(2)(g)
>
> As your letter lacks specificity and breaches the requirements
of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs
3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2) as well as the Practice Direction -
Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)), you must treat
this letter as a formal request for all of the
documents/information that the protocol now requires your client
to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without
complying with that protocol.
>
> As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the
requirements of both the Practice Direction and the Pre-Action
Protocol for debt claims and your client, as a serial litigator
of debt claims, should likewise be aware of them. As you (and
your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind
all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim.
Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the
claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to
enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate
a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring
the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.
It is embarrassing that a firm of Solicitors are sending a
consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter Before Claim' in
complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and
the Pre-Action Protocol.
>
> I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim
that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the
Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a
formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol.
Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by
sending me the following information/documents:
>
> [indent]1. An explanation of the cause of action
> 2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
> 3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of
POFA 2012
> 4. what the details of the claim are; for how long it is
claimed the vehicle was parked, how the monies being claimed
arose and have been calculated
> 5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the
date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and
provide to me a copy of that contract.
> 6. If the claim is for a contractual breach, photographs
showing the vehicle was parked in contravention of said
contract.
> 7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
> 8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under
which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by
the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).
> 9. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
> 10. Photographs of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of
font, height at which displayed) at the time of any alleged
contravention.
> 11. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any
interest and administrative or other charges added
> 12. Am I to understand that the additional £60 represents what
is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett
or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why
I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
> 13. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this
damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?
>
> I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs
6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order
to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).
>
> If your client does not provide me with this information then
I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb
Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch),
Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part
20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church
Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann
Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions
on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant
to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice
Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
>
> Until your client has complied with its obligations and
provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to
the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it,
and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court
time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client
do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph
15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this
information is provided.
>
> Yours faithfully
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Hiya, thank you so much again for your help. You and others on
this site help so many people deal with situations that can be
extremely stressful.
We put the request for the original NtK and the DRN into one
envelope and popped it into a letter box around the 25th of
March.
"If you doubt follow the advice and then come asking for further
advice, why do you expect us to help you?"
I really trust the advice of all of those of you who give your
time and share your wisdom in this forum, and can definitely say
that without it, I'd be in a real muddle. Please don't think I
deliberately didn't take your advice. I realise looking over the
thread, because of a few questions I asked how it may have come
across that way. truth is that I've had a really overwhelming
few months and haven't always actioned things in the right way.
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