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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 61225--------------------------------------------------
s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: docklander
Date: March 7, 2025, 12:19 pm
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Received NTP for 35 in a 20.
Car owner did not recognise being in that location at that time.
Questioned and subsequently provided photo of car elsewhere.
Police refusing to accept as evidence and now passing on for
prosecution.
Is it still feasible to complete the S172? Was given until late
February to complete as extension.
#Post#: 61231--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: March 7, 2025, 12:39 pm
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Has the recipient of the request suddenly established that the
car was in the location alleged?
Need a bit more detail, including dates, etc.
#Post#: 61236--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: March 7, 2025, 1:03 pm
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--- Quote from: docklander link ---
>
> Received NTP for 35 in a 20.
--- End Quote ---
If you must invent your own acronyms, please provide the full
version. But mostly, please don't invent your own acronyms.
--- Quote ---
> Car owner did not recognise being in that location at that
time. Questioned and subsequently provided photo of car
elsewhere. Police refusing to accept as evidence and now passing
on for prosecution.
>
> Is it still feasible to complete the S172? Was given until
late February to complete as extension.
--- End Quote ---
What information has been provided in response to the s. 172
requirement so far?
What form did this questioning take?
Was the car elsewhere at the material time, or did the car owner
take legal advice from some bloke down the pub?
Otherwise, if he had until late Feb to provide the information,
he might struggle to provide the information in time.
#Post#: 61281--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: docklander
Date: March 8, 2025, 2:32 am
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What information has been provided in response to the s. 172
requirement so far?
The owner of the vehicle provided photos of the car and then an
image of CCTV showing the car elsewhere.
What form did this questioning take?
Email.
Matter "has now been sent through to prosecutions for court
proceedings". Can this process be stopped or is it now
inevitable? Do prosecutions always decide to actually prosecute?
Sorry about the incorrect acronym. PNTDIA (promise not to do it
again).
#Post#: 61296--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: March 8, 2025, 5:41 am
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The owner of the vehicle provided photos of the car and then an
image of CCTV showing the car elsewhere.
Presumably the police do not consider that to be a satisfactory
response to the request for driver's details.
Matter "has now been sent through to prosecutions for court
proceedings". Can this process be stopped or is it now
inevitable? Do prosecutions always decide to actually prosecute?
You need to tell us some dates, what has been received, what
responses were made and by whom before that can be answered.
You mention "the owner", though don't say whether he is he
person who received the request. What is your involvement in
this?
This is all so vague that no proper advice can be given.
#Post#: 61299--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: March 8, 2025, 5:50 am
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--- Quote from: docklander link ---
>
> What information has been provided in response to the s. 172
requirement so far?
>
> What form did this questioning take?
> Email.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Such an uninformative and cryptic response is unlikely to
encourage people to help you
#Post#: 61301--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: docklander
Date: March 8, 2025, 6:14 am
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No wish to be cyrptic, trying to be direct.
The original ticket was received around October.
The car owner did not believe the car was in that location at
the time of the alleged offence. A letter was posted to police
explaining that. The police wrote back around December asking
for photos of the car from all angles. This was emailed to the
police.
The police then wrote back saying that although a small
difference had been identified on the number plate, they
believed the car was in the time of the alleged offence.
They emailed a photo of the front of the car and a photo of the
owner from their driving license. It is not possible to identify
the driver from the photo of the car.
An email conversation followed. The owner then sent a printed
photo of the car on CCTV elsewhere. The police emailed to say
they could not see the car properly so an email photo was sent.
The police then wrote to say that CCTV can be manipulated and
this is not admissable as proof. As of around two days ago, the
police stated the matter had now been sent for prosecution.
Another speeding ticket was received two weeks prior to this by
a different police force. The same process was followed but that
police force accepted that it was 50/50 as to whether or not the
car had been cloned and said no further action would be taken.
The owner has not let the police force with the current alleged
offence about the prior matter.
The owner takes the view they would rather possibly now complete
the s172 and accept they may be mistaken than to take the matter
to court. Is it now too late to do this?
I am the brother of the owner of the car and trying my very best
to help.
#Post#: 61302--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: March 8, 2025, 6:27 am
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[quote]Is it now too late to do this?[quote]
If the speeding offence was last week, very possibly not. If it
was three or four months ago, it almost certainly is.
You need to help us out a bit with that. I'm not pulling any
more teeth.
#Post#: 61305--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: docklander
Date: March 8, 2025, 6:30 am
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The alleged offence was in October, the deadline for reply was
extended until 27.02.2025 due to ongoing communications.
#Post#: 61343--------------------------------------------------
Re: s172 out of time and police refusal to accept evidence
DIR By: disgruntchelt
Date: March 8, 2025, 9:29 am
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I don’t understand. Either the owner knows his car was elsewhere
and wasn’t speeding,
Or the owner was trying a cunning wheeze to avoid points and a
fine.
In the former I don’t understand why they wouldn’t be willing to
go to court to clear their name. I’m sure the bench would
accept the evidence.
If it is the latter case, you are basically asking can the owner
get out of this without consuming porridge? I guess if they
don’t present any evidence and plead guilty to FTF (and not
guilty to speeding if they’ve been dual charges) the police
might ignore their attempt at perverting the course of justice,
and they’ll just get the 6 points and hefty insurance premiums
for a while.
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