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#Post#: 60844--------------------------------------------------
Civil Enforcement PCN - compliant with BPA?
DIR By: IanO
Date: March 6, 2025, 3:20 am
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Hello,
The driver visited Sacred Heart Church in Wimbledon on February
12th and parked in their car park. The driver went to enquire
about funeral services in the Church lobby. There is a 15 minute
grace period before cameras issue a PCN. The driver was there
for 18 minutes and hadn’t realised they should have registered
their car number plate on one of the tablets in the Presbytery
reception.
Page 1 of the PCN:
HTML https://ibb.co/7JbqPFCc
Page 2:
HTML https://ibb.co/hRpwyQrT
The PCN is from a company called Civil Enforcement, and was
received yesterday in the post (March 5th), but has an issue
Issue Date on it of February 28th. I would like to know if I
have grounds to appeal on the following:
- The photos on the PCN do not bear any time stamps and as far
as I can tell they look slightly cropped. There seems to be no
way to view them online. This isn’t line with requirement of BPA
ATA CoP 21.5?
- I can’t tell if this operator relies on POFA 2012, how can I
tell? If they do, the notice is dated more than 14 days after
the alleged contravention. I only received the notice yesterday,
so have already lost 5 of the 14 days to pay the discounted
rate.
- I only over-stayed by 3 minutes
Do I, the registered keeper, have any other grounds for appeal
please?
Thank you
#Post#: 60849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement PCN - compliant with BPA?
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: March 6, 2025, 3:43 am
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Can you confirm that you are the registered keeper of the
vehicle? If so, you are right that they have failed to comply
with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act.
You can appeal with the below.
[indent]Dear Sirs,
I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for
vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the
driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your
correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the
registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have chosen not to issue a
Notice to Keeper in accordance with The Act, and it is now too
late for you to do so.
There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not
be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this
matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge
has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you
must issue a POPLA code.
Yours,[/indent]
If appealing online, be careful there are no drop down/tick
boxes that cause you to identify who was driving, and keep a
close eye on your spam folder for their response. If they do not
respond within 28 days, chase them.
#Post#: 60956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement PCN - compliant with BPA?
DIR By: IanO
Date: March 6, 2025, 9:22 am
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Thanks. The very first question they ask during the appeal
online is “are you the driver of the vehicle?”,
I can select yes, no or just proceed by not answering it. Does
it matter what option I choose? Same with the next question
asking if I’m the registered keeper (yes, no or leave it
unanswered).
#Post#: 60964--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement PCN - compliant with BPA?
DIR By: jfollows
Date: March 6, 2025, 10:04 am
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Do not answer the question about the driver.
Yes, you are the registered keeper (if true).
If you identify the driver you sink your case fatally.
They already know you are the registered keeper anyway since
they asked the DVLA for this information. Well, you haven’t
answered the earlier question on this here so I’m presuming you
are.
#Post#: 60988--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement PCN - compliant with BPA?
DIR By: IanO
Date: March 6, 2025, 12:23 pm
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Yes I am the registered keeper! Ok I’ll appeal as advised, thank
you for your input
#Post#: 61044--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement PCN - compliant with BPA?
DIR By: b789
Date: March 6, 2025, 6:27 pm
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OP< you have to get it into your head that the driver and the
keeper are two separate legal entities and there is no legal
obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an
unregulated private packing company. The only entity liable for
the charge is the driver and CEL have absolutely no idea who
that is unless you blab it to them, inadvertently or otherwise.
So, irrespective of whether you were or were not the driver, you
are only responding as the Keeper and any reference to the
driver should be in the third person. No blabbing that you, the
keeper were the driver by saying "I did this or that", only "the
driver did this or that".
Because CEL have not relied on PoFA to be able to transfer
liability from the unknown driver to the known Keeper, you use
the response provided above.
#Post#: 61132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement PCN - compliant with BPA?
DIR By: ixxy
Date: March 7, 2025, 6:12 am
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As explained above, not POFA complaint so they can't hold the
keeper liable, that's on them for not issuing the PCN in time.
There is a 15 minute grace period before cameras issue a PCN.
Does it say this on the signs or are you assuming that is the
case. If it's not mentioned on the signs you get a minimum of a
5 minute consideration period in most car parks (there are
exceptions under the new COP), it could be longer but often it's
not. If there is a free stay period mentioned on the signs then
you get a grace period of a minimum of 10 minutes on top of
what's on the signage. It's either or though, they don't add
together and a grace period only applies if you parked in
accordance with the rules of the car park.
It's not relevant in this case but in case you find yourself in
another privately managed car parks read the signs, don't make
assumptions.
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