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#Post#: 60639--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: March 5, 2025, 3:59 am
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Suggested draft representations (building on Hippocrates
skeleton). NB, I've assumed the PCN was addressed to you rather
than someone else (it will go to the vehicle's registered keeper
and they are the ones who should respond, not the driver if
that's someone else).
Dear Hounslow,
I would like to submit representations against your recent PCN
on the following bases.
1) The alleged contravention did not occur as the video quality
is (i) so poor and (ii) even playing it several times one can
just about make out that it shows there is no contravention of
entering and stopping due to the presence of stationary
vehicles. The vehicle in front of my own is at no point
stationary, and the one in front of that looks to be
sufficiently in front of the box junction that my vehicle could
have passed through completely without stopping.
2) The PCN is in any case invalid for the following reason.
Under "If you do nothing":
The PCN wrongly states which action triggers the period in which
the council may serve a charge certificate: “If the Penalty
Charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days
beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased
charge of £195.00 maybe payable. We may then send you a Charge
Certificate.”
The law states at Schedule 1 5:
1) Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the
penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of
the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that
person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a “charge
certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question
is increased by 50 per cent.
2) The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice
is the period of 28 days beginning—
(a) where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above,
with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served.
Please see London Tribunals case 224038612A for further
confirmation on this point.
For either, or both, of these reasons, you should cancel the
PCN.
Kind regards,
XXXXXXX
#Post#: 60640--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: March 5, 2025, 4:04 am
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Note, I couldn't actually see that part of the PCN that
Hippocrates quoted from (I could only see the front page), so
have simply copied and pasted his argument verbatim.
#Post#: 60688--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 5, 2025, 5:59 am
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[i] and the one in front of that looks to be sufficiently in
front of the box junction that my vehicle could have passed
through completely without stopping.[/I]
Think you can be firmer here as it's clear you waited for moving
traffic to disperse and then easily drove across beyond the box
as there was space.
#Post#: 67728--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: EllzBellz
Date: April 19, 2025, 8:24 am
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> [quote author=EllzBellz link=topic=5342.msg60539#msg60539
date=1741095466]
> [quote author=MrChips link=topic=5342.msg60449#msg60449
date=1741041274]
> Thank you
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> I can use this in my appeal also?
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Just the PCN issue from me. Mr Chips will be along. The website
can wait until later.
My suggested draft:
1. The alleged contravention did not occur as the video quality
is (i) so poor and (ii) even playing it several times it just
about shows there is no contravention of entering and stopping
due to the presence of stationary vehicles and there was
sufficient gap to proceed which I wasn't able to do because of
other traffic.
2. The PCN is invalid...............
In light of the above, please cancel.
In my view, this is a most opportunistic attempt to take your
money. I am more than happy to represent you at the Tribunal if
they wish to take this further.
[/quote]
Hi
I have received the response upholding the PCN see link below
HTML https://imgur.com/a/s8RNeoU
Please advise,
Thank you
#Post#: 67783--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: April 19, 2025, 1:42 pm
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The response completely fails to consider your actual arguments.
I would definitely take this further.
#Post#: 67804--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: April 19, 2025, 5:33 pm
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After having failed to properly consider your representations,
the council have even less of a leg to stand on. They are just
hoping you'll be scared into paying, which is at best
disingenuous as there's clearly no contravention shown in the
video.
You will have to risk the full sum to take this to adjudication,
but I'm confident that you'll end up with nothing to pay. Check
what others say first, but I think the best course of action is
for you to follow the instructions on the NTO about appealing to
the adjudicator and simply tell them that you 'rely on the
representations perviously made to the Council and the Council's
failure to properly consider them'. Choose a telephone/online/or
in person hearing, not an 'on the papers' ruling.
The Council will then have to prepare an evidence pack for the
adjudicators, at which point they will be forced to actually
look at the video that shows no contravention. They may well
fold and offer no evidence, meaning you win (and the Council has
to pay an adjudication fee).
#Post#: 67831--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: April 20, 2025, 5:03 am
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As above. I will drop you a PM if you want me to repsrent you
free of charge.
#Post#: 69693--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 2, 2025, 5:45 am
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We are! Filed.
#Post#: 81898--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 21, 2025, 6:19 am
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;D ;D ;D PCN validity. Decision tomorrow.
#Post#: 81902--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: July 21, 2025, 6:28 am
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Any comments on whether a contravention even occurred?
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