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#Post#: 60365--------------------------------------------------
(PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J Entering
and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: EllzBellz
Date: March 3, 2025, 9:29 am
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(PCN) NJ41731881
London borough of Hounslow
Code 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction where
prohibited
Bath Road (outside Hounslow West station)
Hi please help with advice on appealing the PCN , this happened
as a bus 3 cars ahead stopped and as I went through a green
traffic light I entered the box, the bus ahead prevented the
flow of traffic from moving and I was stuck on the box without
knowing the roads I didn’t know what to do or where to go.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/wN4ATii
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/gVHvNVzL5qorWyEa6
Many thanks
Ellie
#Post#: 60398--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 3, 2025, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Interesting one - I'm going no contravention as space opened up
for you and other vehicles - car and bike - were not stationary.
Note to all - video quality is as per Hounslow.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/VsXOD2u.gif
#Post#: 60411--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: March 3, 2025, 11:30 am
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Agreed. The only car which stops in the box junction never has a
stationary vehicle blocking its exit.
OP, can't see you losing this one if you stick it out to the
end.
#Post#: 60425--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 3, 2025, 12:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
We'll need to help you draft reps. Mr Chips may oblige.
#Post#: 60430--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: March 3, 2025, 1:15 pm
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Also, the PCN is invalid too.
#Post#: 60437--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction wh
DIR By: EllzBellz
Date: March 3, 2025, 1:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Interesting one - I'm going no contravention as space opened
up for you and other vehicles - car and bike - were not
stationary.
>
> Note to all - video quality is as per Hounslow.
>
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/VsXOD2u.gif
>
--- End Quote ---
what does no contravention mean?
--- Quote from: MrChips link ---
>
> Agreed. The only car which stops in the box junction never has
a stationary vehicle blocking its exit.
>
> OP, can't see you losing this one if you stick it out to the
end.
>
--- End Quote ---
Could you advise further please?
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Also, the PCN is invalid too.
>
--- End Quote ---
how is the PCN invalid?
Could I say I stopped to give way to other vehicles (the bike)?
and due to the unexpected actions of the vehicle in front of me
(the car)?
Thanks for the advice I am new to this so not sure of all the
terminology.
#Post#: 60449--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: March 3, 2025, 4:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'll draft something for you tomorrow. I don't know why the PCN
is invalid but if Hippocrates says it is, you can be sure that
it is!
Re the PCN, a common mistake is for people (and councils!) to
believe that any stop within a yellow box junction is an
offence. That's not the case - the law specifies it's only an
offence if the stop is made necessary by stationary vehicles.
So, stopping for a pedestrian walking across your path, or
behind a vehicle which isn't stationary is ok. In the video of
your incident, you do stop in the box junction but crucially the
car "blocking you" never becomes stationary. The vehicle in
front of that one is stationary, but it's far enough in front of
the box junction that it wasn't necessary for you to stop in the
box junction because of it, so that's also ok.
#Post#: 60499--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: March 4, 2025, 5:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
PCN issue:
Under If you do nothing
The PCN wrongly states which action triggers the period in which
the council may serve a
charge certificate: “If the Penalty Charge is not paid before
the end of the period of 28 days
beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased
charge of £195.00 maybe
payable. We may then send you a Charge Certificate.”
The law states at Schedule 1 5:
1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the
penalty charge to which it
relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the
enforcing authority may serve on
that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a
“charge certificate”) to the effect
that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50 per cent.
(2) The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice
is the period of 28 days
beginning—
(a) where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above,
with the date on which the
penalty charge notice is served.
Case here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/haringey-52(m)-pcn-nor-help-(downhills-park-rd-n17)/msg54603/#msg54603
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mq9MAnLdByhCxR5IzpKhvDT7LKlTOHUJ/view
Website issue:
Please screenshot the grounds page to make representations as it
will not contain any. We can use this for later - not now. This
flaw also applied to their parking contraventions website pages
too.
Pending case in May.
#Post#: 60539--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: EllzBellz
Date: March 4, 2025, 7:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MrChips link ---
>
> Thank you
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> I can use this in my appeal also?
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 60550--------------------------------------------------
Re: (PCN) NJ41731881 London borough of Hounslow Code 31J
Entering and stopping in a box junction where prohibited
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: March 4, 2025, 8:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: EllzBellz link ---
>
> [quote author=MrChips link=topic=5342.msg60449#msg60449
date=1741041274]
> Thank you
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> I can use this in my appeal also?
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Just the PCN issue from me. Mr Chips will be along. The website
can wait until later.
My suggested draft:
1. The alleged contravention did not occur as the video quality
is (i) so poor and (ii) even playing it several times it just
about shows there is no contravention of entering and stopping
due to the presence of stationary vehicles and there was
sufficient gap to proceed which I wasn't able to do because of
other traffic.
2. The PCN is invalid...............
In light of the above, please cancel.
In my view, this is a most opportunistic attempt to take your
money. I am more than happy to represent you at the Tribunal if
they wish to take this further.
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