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#Post#: 5124--------------------------------------------------
Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: SMPL
Date: September 14, 2023, 7:48 am
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Hi
I'd appreciate for some advice how to appeal against this PCN as
we have a few drivers and we are not sure who was the driver at
the time this PCN was issued.
Google street view:
HTML https://goo.gl/maps/rPacssNSp8aHnRPg8
Thank you very much in advance
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 5129--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 14, 2023, 8:22 am
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If it was approached as a left turn, you could argue there is no
advance warning making it a trap. From the opposite direction,
(a right turn), the signs are quite clear, as they are also on
direct approach from the opposite street.
Apart from that, there could be arguments about too much to read
from a moving vehicle, although if the streets are 20 mph, that
is more difficult. The PCN may contain fatal errors, so post it
please.
#Post#: 5156--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: SMPL
Date: September 14, 2023, 11:18 am
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Hi
Thank you for the advice. The PCN is attached as PDF file but
will upload it again as an image.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 5158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 14, 2023, 11:59 am
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Photos on the PCN looks like a left turn was made into the
street. This is where the signs are least visible, so you could
argue signs are passed as the turn is in progress. There is no
advance warning sign.
Of course the council, ever greedy for your money, will say it
is all tickety-boo, and reject your representations. You would
then have to take the double-or-quits gamble of adjudication at
London Tribunals.
I don't think the PCN has any fatal errors, but others more
expert than me will no doubt find them if they're there.
#Post#: 5301--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 17, 2023, 11:26 am
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Video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLCD9sG2hzA
No advance warning signs on the main road:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZG5hbNyUJEb5R8Po7
The identity of the driver is irrelevant, the recipient of the
PCN is liable no matter who was driving (unless you're a hire
company and the vehicle was on hire). That being said, I suggest
you put a system in place to identify exactly who is driving
your vehicles because if it were a police matter such as
speeding, red lights or using a hand-held mobile phone (where
the driver does need to be identified), your company could end
up with a fine of thousands of pounds for failing to identify
the driver.
Anyway going back to this PCN, I've requested the traffic
management order. In the meantime please can you confirm what
the purpose of the journey was (you must have logs, surely?) and
also whether the vehicle has a dashcam?
#Post#: 5466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: SMPL
Date: September 19, 2023, 8:23 am
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Hi
Thank you for your response.
The driver was delivering orders.
The van has no dashboard Camera.
#Post#: 5570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 20, 2023, 3:48 pm
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Well you might as well have a go:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Hackney,
We challenge liability for PCN QZ1484700A on the grounds that
the alleged contravention did not occur. We note there are no
advance warning signs on Cazenove Road so our driver would have
had no notice of the restriction, by the time the signage would
have been in view the driver would already be committed to the
turn. We therefore contend that the signage is inadequate.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
I fully expect a rejection, post it up on here when you get it.
#Post#: 6272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 28, 2023, 5:48 am
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For later: The Hackney (Prescribed Routes and 20 MPH Speed
Limit) (Amendment No.58) Order 2022
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1AgrNUjrpfLgxeOZbCjkEFAoUxeiQLRYv.
#Post#: 6881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: SMPL
Date: October 6, 2023, 11:13 am
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Hi
Thank you for your help. Unfortunately, Hackney council rejected
my appeal. Please see letter attached. Do I have any way to
continue with it?
Kind regards
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 6892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney / 53 - Pedestrian zone / School hours/
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 6, 2023, 1:12 pm
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Councils have a duty adequately to sign any restrictions they
impose. Whilst the placement of advance warning signs is not
mandatory, if the signs at the start of the restriction cannot
be seen before the motorist makes the turn into the restricted
street, then inadequate signage can be argued. For a
time-limited restriction, an advance warning could be argued as
more important, because at the point of passing the sign, the
motorist has to very quickly decide if he can proceed or not.
However, they have re-offered the discount, so it is your
decision; pay-up, or take them to London Tribunals with the full
PCN penalty in play.
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