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#Post#: 60186--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 2, 2025, 5:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So are there still PPA signs there as in 2022 - Newham has been
taking some out and converting to CPZs.
Presuming they are the signs there they should have an exception
for signed bays for other parking other than PPA permit holders.
As for the disabled bay I had to go back to 2012 to find
reasonable road markings and obviously if the order still puts
the bay there as it probably does by the dropped kerb for the
nursery then you are in it.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/xeilQZ0.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/FOyn3Tg.png
#Post#: 60203--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Jay_Mandalia
Date: March 2, 2025, 7:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> If it's not marked then it doesn't exist because every
unmarked length of street IS reserved to permit holders PN and
nobody else, this is what PPAs are all about.
>
> You cannot have a Disabled bay co-existing with a permit
holder's only bay.
>
> The ONLY options for parking bays in a PPA are:
>
> Unmarked - for the permit holders specified on the gateway
signs.
>
> Marked - Must be marked as specified on the signs placed
within the markings.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi there, thank you for your message.
I'm aligned with you now. Thanks for clarifying. I will proceed
to formal representation and update here on the outcome
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> So are there still PPA signs there as in 2022 - Newham has
been taking some out and converting to CPZs.
>
> Presuming they are the signs there they should have an
exception for signed bays for other parking other than PPA
permit holders.
>
> As for the disabled bay I had to go back to 2012 to find
reasonable road markings and obviously if the order still puts
the bay there as it probably does by the dropped kerb for the
nursery then you are in it.
>
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/xeilQZ0.png
>
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/FOyn3Tg.png
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi there, thank you for the message.
I am a resident and do have a valid permit to park. The markings
have faded away and it the CEO's responsibility to report any
road marking fadings. It has been 13 years since they started
fading and haven't been repainted.
What are the chances of winning this? Despite the informal
appeal letter stating I was in a bay even though I wasn't. Can
the sign as it is be enforced?
#Post#: 60205--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: March 2, 2025, 7:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Seems to me that the bay is not marked, the DISABLED legend on
the carriageway is missing (worn way) and the sign on the pole
is incorrect.
The sign on the pole shown in GSV Apr 2022 agrees with the sign
in the Council evidence photo. And it appears to be outside the
school. It's a time limited Disabled badge holders only sign.
The traffic order appears to be the "THE NEWHAM (PLAISTOW NORTH)
(DISABLED RESIDENT PARKING PLACES) (NO. 2, 2017) (AMENDMENT NO.
4) ORDER 2022"
HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3988823.
This order refers to a bay on the north side of Dongola Road
West, outside the Howard Baker Nursery.
The Gazette notice for the order says;
"2. The general effect of the Orders would be to introduce
disabled resident parking places for use only by persons who are
resident within the relevant Controlled Parking Zones (CPZs),
who meet the current criteria for the provision of parking
places for disabled persons and who have been issued disabled
resident parking permits. Certain other vehicles may wait in the
parking places in certain circumstances, e.g., to load or unload
goods or pick up or set down passengers. Details of the disabled
resident parking places, including the CPZs and locations, are
set out in the Schedule to this Notice."
So it's a DRPP bay. The sign should say "Disabled residents
permit holders only" with the zone identifier for Plaistow
North. Only a person who has a Disabled residents parking permit
for zone Plaistow North can use the bay. A standard residents
permit holder cannot park there and neither can a Blue Badge
holder without the correct DRPP. That's the arrangement all over
Newham.
There's no reference in the traffic order to any time limit on
DRPP bays.
PM our administrator [member=1]cp8759[/member] and see has he
got, or can get, the official traffic order?
#Post#: 60208--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: March 2, 2025, 7:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jay_Mandalia link ---
>
>
> Hi there, thank you for your message.
> Fingers crossed, a neighbour of mine fought for his ticket,
parked in the same position and have and had the PCN cancelled
due to no valid bay being present.
> Edit: Despite me mentioning I'm not parked in the bay, they
said I have parked in a bay near the bottom of the letter.
>
--- End Quote ---
1. Do you know on what basis your neighbour successfully
challenged his PCN? How did he demonstrate it wasn't a valid
bay?
2. When you say "Despite me mentioning I'm not parked in the
bay" are you questioning where Newham say you were parked, or
are you saying that where you were parked isn't correctly signed
as a disabled bay?
#Post#: 60219--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 2, 2025, 8:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
>
> The traffic order appears to be the "THE NEWHAM (PLAISTOW
NORTH) (DISABLED RESIDENT PARKING PLACES) (NO. 2, 2017)
(AMENDMENT NO. 4) ORDER 2022"
HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3988823.
>
> This order refers to a bay on the north side of Dongola Road
West, outside the Howard Baker Nursery.
>
> The Gazette notice for the order says;
> "2. The general effect of the Orders would be to introduce
disabled resident parking places for use only by persons who are
resident within the relevant Controlled Parking Zones (CPZs),
who meet the current criteria for the provision of parking
places for disabled persons and who have been issued disabled
resident parking permits. Certain other vehicles may wait in the
parking places in certain circumstances, e.g., to load or unload
goods or pick up or set down passengers. Details of the disabled
resident parking places, including the CPZs and locations, are
set out in the Schedule to this Notice."
>
> So it's a DRPP bay. The sign should say "Disabled residents
permit holders only" with the zone identifier for Plaistow
North. Only a person who has a Disabled residents parking permit
for zone Plaistow North can use the bay. A standard residents
permit holder cannot park there and neither can a Blue Badge
holder without the correct DRPP. That's the arrangement all over
Newham.
>
> There's no reference in the traffic order to any time limit on
DRPP bays.
>
> PM our administrator [member=1]cp8759[/member] and see has he
got, or can get, the official traffic order?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes I looked that up but didn't read it so closely - there seems
to have been a disabled bay there since at least 2008 on Google
maps but that order was made in 2017. It's typical of Newham to
fail to maintain/change signage/markings.
OP - are the PPA signs there now at the road entrance?
Seems to me there's enough here to go on with this.
#Post#: 60235--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: March 2, 2025, 9:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The bay was created by The Newham (Disabled Persons) (Community
Parking) (Special Parking Area) (No. 1) Order 2007
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qCdWJ9lIqwEh7kjwliw5MKngUfh5W47I/view,<br
/>item 11 on page 16.
Article 13 is helpful:
[indent]
13. The Council shall:-
[indent]
(a) place and maintain traffic signs indicating the limits of
each parking place referred to in Schedules 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and
7;
(b) place and maintain in or in the vicinity of each parking
place referred to in Schedules 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, traffic
signs indicating that such parking place may be used during the
permitted hours for the leaving only of the vehicles specified
in Article 4(1);
(c) carry out such other work as is reasonably required for the
purposes of the satisfactory operation of a parking place.
[/indent]
[/indent]
I don't see how they have complied with Article 13(a), in any
event I'll get hold of the PPA order. There is a distinct
possibility they either accidentally or intentionally abolished
the disabled residents bay.
#Post#: 60356--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Jay_Mandalia
Date: March 3, 2025, 8:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ManxTom link ---
>
> [quote author=Jay_Mandalia link=topic=5308.msg60129#msg60129
date=1740856703]
>
> Hi there, thank you for your message.
> Fingers crossed, a neighbour of mine fought for his ticket,
parked in the same position and have and had the PCN cancelled
due to no valid bay being present.
> Edit: Despite me mentioning I'm not parked in the bay, they
said I have parked in a bay near the bottom of the letter.
>
--- End Quote ---
1. Do you know on what basis your neighbour successfully
challenged his PCN? How did he demonstrate it wasn't a valid
bay?
2. When you say "Despite me mentioning I'm not parked in the
bay" are you questioning where Newham say you were parked, or
are you saying that where you were parked isn't correctly signed
as a disabled bay?
[/quote]
1) Yes my neighbours appeal was this: Dear Sir/madam,
I am appealing the PCN I have received on my car in regards to
the alleged contravention 'Code 40 - Parked in a designated
disabled person's parking place without displaying a valid
disabled person's badge in the prescribed manner', which did not
occur and so the ticket is invalid. I am challenging the ticket
on the following grounds.
- There were no visual road markings:
For me to identify what part of the road if any had restrictions
for Disabled badge holders, Newham Council should have road
markings easily identifiable for motorists as shown with
illustrations on page 37 of the Civil Enforcement Handbook
issued by London Councils;
"Code description: Parked in a designated disabled person's
parking place without displaying a valid disabled person's badge
in the prescribed manner. Code contravention: The contravention
occurs when a vehicle waits in a disabled person's parking place
without displaying a valid disabled person's parking badge
and/or clock". Without any road markings, it was not clear to be
where the disabled bay was.
• Old faded road marking, Furthermore, upon closer inspection
provided in the supporting evidence, you can see a very faint
and faded bay which one can only assume was originally put down
for disabled badge holders. This means that I was not parked in
the designated parking bay for Disabled badge holders, and even
if I were, since the road markings have faded away, this ticket
cannot be enforced.
- Photographs provided by Newham Council do not prove I was
parked within a Disabled bay - reviewing the photos attached to
my PCN on the Council Website, it is not clear whether I was
parked in mentioned disabled persons parking place. There are
multiple pictures of my car with a PCN attached to it and
general pictures of my car, without such evidence alleged
contravention did not occur.
To summarise, since there are no road markings clearly visible
to prove I was parked in the so called designated disabled's
person's parking place and without any photographic evidence
from the council, alleged Contravention code 40 does not exist
in this case and so is not valid and so l ask Newham council to
cancel this ticket.
2) I am saying that in the letter I received from the council, I
have stated that I was not parked in a bay (Road Markings have
faded away), they have said 'Notice was issued because your your
vehicle was parked in a Bay' and 'By Parking in this bay '. But
like I mentioned, I'm not parked in any disabled Bay. I have
clearly stated to them that my vehicle is not in a Bay, they
somehow are saying i'm in a disabled bay which makes no sense at
all.
#Post#: 60357--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Jay_Mandalia
Date: March 3, 2025, 9:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi there, thank you all for the comments.
Newham updated signs for a further towards the building block as
well as displaying a valid 'Disabled' road marking. Not on the
PC at the moment but you'll be able to see it if you flick
through the years. It will be the Bay closet towards building
block.
Road entrance signs are still there for 'PN'.
Edit: Just checked the links provided, there is no valid order
either for the disabled residents permit place bay here too
(Same road but further ahead)
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 64705--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: March 28, 2025, 8:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Here is The Newham (Plaistow North) (Disabled Resident Parking
Places) (No. 2, 2017) (Amendment No. 4) Order 2022
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FeJrTnVktgE_T1Z2JslyCUTgk3YZFK82/view.
Any sign of the NTO yet?
#Post#: 64712--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: March 29, 2025, 3:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, you hold a permit. It therefore follows that you are local.
Can we please have clear photos(not dated GSV etc. but photos)
of where you were parked. Other posters to their credit are
trying to fill in your gaps when it's easier for you to do so
definitively.
No substantially compliant parking place markings = no
contravention.
Substantially compliant markings but no underlying TMO
restriction = no contravention.
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