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#Post#: 60101--------------------------------------------------
PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Jay_Mandalia
Date: March 1, 2025, 10:25 am
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Hi there,
So I have recently received a PCN for parking in a designated
disabled persons bay.
I have appealed to the council stating the reasons 'Road
markings unclear/No designated bay'. However my informal appeal
was denied (See attached picture). Despite stating I was not
parked in a designated bay, they still mentioned in the letter
that I have parked in a bay. Can a sign still be enforced
despite there being no road markings of a 'Designated Bay'? I
have also checked the London Council Civil enforcement handbook
contravention code 40 and can see a Bay needs to be valid for
the contravention to occur.
My next step is to make a formal representation, but if it
rejected what are the chances of it being accepted through
London Tribunals?
Thank you for taking the time to look,
Jay
Edit: I have a valid parking permit for this area (PN)
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 60110--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 1, 2025, 11:47 am
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Presumably you missed these signs as you drove into the street ?
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/8XwwVX4jjcsLNh96A
However the PCN is for parking in a designated disabled parking
bay, and to do this you would need both a BB and also a permit
for the street. I presume you don't hold a permit for parking on
this street. Wait for others to comment, but I don't think you
are holding a strong hand appeal-wise.
#Post#: 60122--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: March 1, 2025, 12:42 pm
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I have looked at the council photos online. Although I do not
see a painted bay I do see your car was right next to a sign
saying disabled badge holders only. I think you have an uphill
fight on
#Post#: 60124--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 1, 2025, 12:43 pm
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The permit parking area entry sign should say 'except in signed
bays' if there are exceptions in the PPA.
I've checked and there is an order for a disabled bay in the PPA
but I'd say the entry sign possibly overrules this and they've
let the bay marking degrade.
#Post#: 60128--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Jay_Mandalia
Date: March 1, 2025, 1:16 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Presumably you missed these signs as you drove into the street
?
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/8XwwVX4jjcsLNh96A
>
> However the PCN is for parking in a designated disabled
parking bay, and to do this you would need both a BB and also a
permit for the street. I presume you don't hold a permit for
parking on this street. Wait for others to comment, but I don't
think you are holding a strong hand appeal-wise.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi there, thank you for your message.
I do indeed hold a permit for this area.
#Post#: 60129--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Jay_Mandalia
Date: March 1, 2025, 1:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: mrmustard link ---
>
> I have looked at the council photos online. Although I do not
see a painted bay I do see your car was right next to a sign
saying disabled badge holders only. I think you have an uphill
fight on
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi there, thank you for your message.
Fingers crossed, a neighbour of mine fought for his ticket,
parked in the same position and have and had the PCN cancelled
due to no valid bay being present.
Edit: Despite me mentioning I'm not parked in the bay, they said
I have parked in a bay near the bottom of the letter.
#Post#: 60131--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Jay_Mandalia
Date: March 1, 2025, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> The permit parking area entry sign should say 'except in
signed bays' if there are exceptions in the PPA.
>
> I've checked and there is an order for a disabled bay in the
PPA but I'd say the entry sign possibly overrules this and
they've let the bay marking degrade.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hello, thank you for your message
Unfortunately they have left the sign to degrade since 2012...
Quite difficult to see, although my car is infront of the sign,
the disabled bay is more ahead where the dropped kerb is. You
could say my car front tyres are on the previous marked bay.
It is also quite confusing because if I was parked a car length
behind, I would still get a ticket because I was near the sign.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 60134--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: March 1, 2025, 2:15 pm
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A Permit Parking Area:
an area—
(a)
into which each entrance for vehicular traffic has been
indicated by the sign provided for at item 5 of the sign table
in Part 3 of Schedule 5; and
(b)
where any parking place within that area reserved for the use of
the permit holders as indicated on that sign is not shown by
markings on the road (whether or not an upright sign is placed
next to, or near, such a parking place to indicate that only the
permit holders in question may use the place)
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/1/made
Which means that any and every length of street reserved for
different users must be marked. It's no different to any other
length of street.
#Post#: 60137--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: Jay_Mandalia
Date: March 1, 2025, 2:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> A Permit Parking Area:
>
> an area—
> (a)
> into which each entrance for vehicular traffic has been
indicated by the sign provided for at item 5 of the sign table
in Part 3 of Schedule 5; and
>
> (b)
> where any parking place within that area reserved for the use
of the permit holders as indicated on that sign is not shown by
markings on the road (whether or not an upright sign is placed
next to, or near, such a parking place to indicate that only the
permit holders in question may use the place)
>
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/1/made
>
> Which means that any and every length of street reserved for
different users must be marked. It's no different to any other
length of street.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi there, Thank you for your response.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure if you are referring for not having a
valid parking permit. I can confirm I do have a valid permit
(PN) to park in the area, just not a blue badge.
With your comments regarding marking, yes the designated bay
needs to be marked, in which there are no markings shown.
#Post#: 60146--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Newham Council - Contravention Code: 40
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: March 1, 2025, 4:32 pm
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If it's not marked then it doesn't exist because every unmarked
length of street IS reserved to permit holders PN and nobody
else, this is what PPAs are all about.
You cannot have a Disabled bay co-existing with a permit
holder's only bay.
The ONLY options for parking bays in a PPA are:
Unmarked - for the permit holders specified on the gateway
signs.
Marked - Must be marked as specified on the signs placed within
the markings.
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