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       #Post#: 4983--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: Pastmybest
       Date: September 12, 2023, 3:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Act quickly inform you manager that you intend to appeal and
       that Days need to make representations on the grounds that they
       are a hire company the PCN,s will then be reissued in the name
       of the council and they can authorise you to act in the matter
       of these PCN's
       Unless you are contractually obliged to pay parking fines they
       cannot force you too
       #Post#: 4989--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: zemanzdenek
       Date: September 12, 2023, 4:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you for the replies.
       [member=17]MMV Redux[/member] in regards to the Appellant and
       Respondent do I need to have these PCN's in my own name. Also
       does the delay on the experimental order help me in anyway?
       [member=156]Pastmybest[/member] I have informed him I would be
       appealing when the first two came through and he just said it
       was worth a try. So I need to contact my manager again and
       inform him that I am appealing, I can cc the transport officer
       into the email who received the PCN from Days and have them
       contact about representations and have the council reissue the
       PCN in my name?
       I'm unaware of my contract stating we have to pay fines but I
       will look into today waiting for a call back regarding that
       issue but here the department receive the PCN's etc and they are
       paid by whoever is driving the vehicle.
       Reading through the last two PCN's the they have been issued
       directly to Cardiff Council instead of Day's then passed to my
       department then onto me, do I request  Representations from
       Cardiff Council to then have it put in my name?
       The last two PCN's are for the exact same time and date which I
       am confused by, how has this happened?
       Thank you all, sorry for the diatribe!
       #Post#: 4994--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: Pastmybest
       Date: September 12, 2023, 5:39 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Only the recipient of the PCN may make representations and is
       responsible for payment if non are made the hire company pass
       liability to the council by way of representation that they are
       a hire co the council then receive a PCN in their name.They can
       pass it on to you with their authority to challenge on their
       behalf but it is still in their name
       What you have to get too before it,s to late is that authority
       to make representation in the councils name
       If they do not give it they have denied your right to justice
       via a hearing which could cause problems for them
       #Post#: 4995--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: zemanzdenek
       Date: September 12, 2023, 5:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm pretty slow as you can see can you give me a brief step by
       step how I proceed with that action?
       Contact my manager and transport officer with the above
       information?
       #Post#: 4999--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: guest17
       Date: September 12, 2023, 6:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OP -- We need more detail and probably more input from members
       before you take any further action. I am not too sure of the
       suggestion from PMB that you take it on yourself to action the
       PCNs.
       Some questions for clarity:-
       How are you in possession of the PCNs?
       Does your contract of employment specify that you, as a driver
       of a Council leased vehicle, are responsible for paying traffic
       and parking fines?
       Are you given a particular vehicle or one from a number?
       Do you keep the vehicle at home outside shifts?
       Are you in a trade union?
       It seems the process is the wrong way round--the lease company
       passes the PCNs to your manager to sort out----rather
       than----the lease company formally declares themselves to be a
       leasing company and then provides the enforcement authority (the
       Council) with details of the hirer/lessee (the Council).
       With the last scenario we have a closed loop---the Council
       cannot enforce against itself so you are in the clear.
       In the first scenario I am trying to work out the vehicle's
       "keeper" and if you have any responsibility whatsoever for
       payment.
       With regard to PMB's suggestion perhaps if you do nothing the
       next demand to the leasing company will draw out the name of the
       hirer/lessee but,as I said, wait for other views.
       Mike
       #Post#: 5002--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: zemanzdenek
       Date: September 12, 2023, 6:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi Mike,
       In regards to your questions:
       1) The PCN came via email to me. The first PCN was originally
       sent to Days as they are the owner of the vehicle who forwarded
       it to transport services who then forwarded it to my department
       manager who passed the email to me.
       2) I do not believe it does but I've been waiting to hear back
       from my union to confirm.
       3) I'm given this particular vehicle.
       4) I keep the vehicle after shifts/overnight
       5) yes I am waiting still to here back from them.
       
       Thank you for your help. I know my direct manager is really
       unhappy with this as stated in the screenshot post above and
       just wants it paid rather than allow me to at least appeal the
       PCN.
       #Post#: 5036--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: September 12, 2023, 6:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: MMV Redux link ---
       >
       > Well if the lessee of the vehicle is the Council, as one body
       corporate, it cannot be both Appellant and Respondent and seek
       to pursue itself for these Penalty Charge Notices.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That won't stop them from trying, Islington even pursued a costs
       order against itself:
       London Borough of Islington v London Borough of Islington
       (2070232277, 13 September 2007)
  HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1tCEsTZWLul0IDx8qYPN5AbHSveuMfAoI
       London Borough of Redbridge v London Borough of Redbridge
       (2180449206, 03 October 2018)
  HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1hEDqTqz4yaxppHtoQCCMB-p7Ctp-4vKJ
       London Borough of Redbridge v London Borough of Redbridge
       (2200498773, 14 January 2021)
  HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1WDblyirQphVknnLP5GBSVEWxpVWrGwDZ
       London Borough of Southwark v London Borough of Southwark
       (2200544462, 05 March 2021)
  HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=10uNhViRLq4YCirHyP1HSlv-pH4OF9puD
       #Post#: 5037--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: September 12, 2023, 6:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       All the PCNs are sitting at £35 at the moment, which is frankly
       a bit odd.
       I suggest you contact Days and ask them if they've appealed the
       PCNs on the hire company ground. If they have, ask if they've
       received a Notice of Acceptance or some other correspondence
       confirming liability has been transferred.
       If Days have not taken any action yet, instruct them to
       challenge all three PCNs on the hire company ground, requesting
       that liability be transferred to the leasee.
       Please report back urgently, whatever the situation is there
       will be follow-up actions for you.
       #Post#: 5038--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: zemanzdenek
       Date: September 12, 2023, 6:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ok, do I contact Days directly myself as all correspondence goes
       through our transport department to Days as they hire the
       vehicles?
       #Post#: 5047--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cardiff County Council. Crystal Glen, Llanishen. (52m)
       failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehi
   DIR By: zemanzdenek
       Date: September 13, 2023, 4:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What is the recommended plan of action with this?
       Transport services are on strike currently and that who I would
       have to go through them as I have no contact with Days or the
       hiring of vehicles, I'm assigned a van and keep it overnight.
       Thank you
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