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       #Post#: 59052--------------------------------------------------
       Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: Innocent
       Date: February 20, 2025, 10:24 am
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       I recently got a letter in the post from the police asking for
       driver details as someone had been seen using a mobile on such
       and such day last month.
       Anyway there was no doubt that I was the driver, however I
       cannot remember using my phone. It has now gone to conditional
       offer £200 + 6 points. I though they would offer me a course.
       Anyway after ringing the phone number multiple times the
       operator said it had appeared that a policeman had passed me on
       the dual carriage way and seen me holding phone to my ear.
       She was hesitant when I asked if it was 1 officer or 2 so I
       think its 1. Apparently there wasn't any footage and I asked her
       why they didn't stop me she said they probably had other things
       to do.
       I have had dealings with the police before and for anyone whos
       in any doubt they are liars I would say they lie every time they
       move their lips.
       But although I have asked for disclosure I doubt Ill get it. Its
       unbelievable that motorists are held to ransom like this. They
       know that seeing a solicitor going to set you back more than
       £200 but being asked to take a conviction without seeing any
       evidence against you or youll get a fair trial from a magistrate
       who wont think about the real question which is the benefit of
       doubt has to go to the defendent and just convict you and then
       punish you for questioning the system.
       #Post#: 59054--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: speedfighter23
       Date: February 20, 2025, 10:30 am
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       Don't they need evidence to convict?
       #Post#: 59058--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: February 20, 2025, 10:58 am
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       You won't get disclosure of the evidence unless you decline the
       Fixed Penalty offer and choose to have the matter heard in
       court. When you are prosecuted you will be served with the
       evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you. From what
       you say, this will probably consist simply of a statement from
       the officer who is alleging the offence.
       If you defend the matter you will have to ask for the officer to
       attend to give evidence in person. You will have the opportunity
       to cross examine him or her and must be able to cast doubt on
       the evidence so that the court cannot be sure that you are
       guilty. If they have any doubt they must acquit you.
       When making their decision, the court will have in mind that the
       officer has nothing in particular to gain from your conviction
       and quite a bit to lose if it is discovered that perjury has
       been committed. You, on the other hand, have quite a bit to gain
       from being acquitted and as well as that, you are not certain
       that you were not using your phone.
       One thing is fairly certain: if you approach this on the basis
       that you believe that police officers "...lie every time they
       move their lips" and that the court will "...just convict you
       and then punish you for questioning the system", you are
       unlikely to see a successful outcome.
       #Post#: 59059--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: February 20, 2025, 11:06 am
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       Have you come here for advice, or answers to as yet unspecified
       questions, or just to have a rant and tell us what's what?
       #Post#: 59142--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: Freecall
       Date: February 21, 2025, 2:48 am
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       --- Quote from: speedfighter23 link ---
       >
       > Don't they need evidence to convict?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, the prosecution will need evidence.
       .... and they have it, the witness statement (which if required
       can be challenged in court).
       #Post#: 59146--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: Dave Green
       Date: February 21, 2025, 3:57 am
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       I honestly don't fancy your chances of winning in court if you
       use "I cannot remember using my phone" as your defence as this
       implies that you do sometimes use your phone whilst driving but
       you are not too sure if you were using it on the occasion
       specified.
       It will be a case of you saying that you're not too sure,
       against a police officer who would be stating that they
       definitely saw you using your phone.
       #Post#: 59152--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: Innocent
       Date: February 21, 2025, 4:49 am
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       Dave I wast planning on using that as a defense. I would say a
       never use my phone while driving and the officer was mistaken.
       And the benefit of the doubt should go to the defendant.
       I just don't want to make my situation worse by being served up
       a bad verdict. As I understand it 6 points is on par with
       driving with no insurance does anyone know the insurance bump
       this will cause?
       #Post#: 59157--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: coffee pot
       Date: February 21, 2025, 5:06 am
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       Your own evidence might consist of your phone logs at that time,
       either retrieved from your device or, more impressively,
       provided by your service provider. It all depends on how sure
       you are you were not on the phone. If, like me you NEVER use
       your phone in the car, you may feel sufficiently sure that you
       want to pursue this; after all, they might have mistaken the car
       or made some other sort of error. You can certainly start by
       examining the phone you had with you (I presume that is common
       ground) and look at your call logs at and around the time you
       were alleged to have committed the offence. Remember that calls
       can be made using data too, with WhatsApp for example, so you
       need to check those as well. Cut all the emotion out - it simply
       clouds your thinking. If you are getting more confident after
       checking your phone consider those next steps with your
       provider. If your logs aren't helpful you are probably best
       taking it on the chin, I suggest.
       #Post#: 59158--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: Dave Green
       Date: February 21, 2025, 5:19 am
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       --- Quote from: Innocent link ---
       >
       > Dave I wast planning on using that as a defense. I would say a
       never use my phone while driving and the officer was mistaken.
       And the benefit of the doubt should go to the defendant.
       --- End Quote ---
       As you have already stated that you don't remember using your
       phone rather than simply saying you never use it when driving,
       using that as a defence in court will be perjury and if the
       proof is found of you using it (either from the phone logs or
       from your service provider), the outcome could well be far worse
       than 6 points on your licence.
       As to the benefit of the doubt. There will be a police officer
       giving a sworn statement that they saw you on the phone, a
       statement that they have no reason to make up and it's highly
       probable that the judge will believe them over you.
       #Post#: 59162--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Using phone whilst driving
   DIR By: Southpaw82
       Date: February 21, 2025, 5:37 am
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       To be given the benefit of the doubt the court must first find
       that there is some doubt.
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