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#Post#: 59052--------------------------------------------------
Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: Innocent
Date: February 20, 2025, 10:24 am
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I recently got a letter in the post from the police asking for
driver details as someone had been seen using a mobile on such
and such day last month.
Anyway there was no doubt that I was the driver, however I
cannot remember using my phone. It has now gone to conditional
offer £200 + 6 points. I though they would offer me a course.
Anyway after ringing the phone number multiple times the
operator said it had appeared that a policeman had passed me on
the dual carriage way and seen me holding phone to my ear.
She was hesitant when I asked if it was 1 officer or 2 so I
think its 1. Apparently there wasn't any footage and I asked her
why they didn't stop me she said they probably had other things
to do.
I have had dealings with the police before and for anyone whos
in any doubt they are liars I would say they lie every time they
move their lips.
But although I have asked for disclosure I doubt Ill get it. Its
unbelievable that motorists are held to ransom like this. They
know that seeing a solicitor going to set you back more than
£200 but being asked to take a conviction without seeing any
evidence against you or youll get a fair trial from a magistrate
who wont think about the real question which is the benefit of
doubt has to go to the defendent and just convict you and then
punish you for questioning the system.
#Post#: 59054--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: speedfighter23
Date: February 20, 2025, 10:30 am
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Don't they need evidence to convict?
#Post#: 59058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: February 20, 2025, 10:58 am
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You won't get disclosure of the evidence unless you decline the
Fixed Penalty offer and choose to have the matter heard in
court. When you are prosecuted you will be served with the
evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you. From what
you say, this will probably consist simply of a statement from
the officer who is alleging the offence.
If you defend the matter you will have to ask for the officer to
attend to give evidence in person. You will have the opportunity
to cross examine him or her and must be able to cast doubt on
the evidence so that the court cannot be sure that you are
guilty. If they have any doubt they must acquit you.
When making their decision, the court will have in mind that the
officer has nothing in particular to gain from your conviction
and quite a bit to lose if it is discovered that perjury has
been committed. You, on the other hand, have quite a bit to gain
from being acquitted and as well as that, you are not certain
that you were not using your phone.
One thing is fairly certain: if you approach this on the basis
that you believe that police officers "...lie every time they
move their lips" and that the court will "...just convict you
and then punish you for questioning the system", you are
unlikely to see a successful outcome.
#Post#: 59059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: February 20, 2025, 11:06 am
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Have you come here for advice, or answers to as yet unspecified
questions, or just to have a rant and tell us what's what?
#Post#: 59142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: Freecall
Date: February 21, 2025, 2:48 am
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--- Quote from: speedfighter23 link ---
>
> Don't they need evidence to convict?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, the prosecution will need evidence.
.... and they have it, the witness statement (which if required
can be challenged in court).
#Post#: 59146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: Dave Green
Date: February 21, 2025, 3:57 am
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I honestly don't fancy your chances of winning in court if you
use "I cannot remember using my phone" as your defence as this
implies that you do sometimes use your phone whilst driving but
you are not too sure if you were using it on the occasion
specified.
It will be a case of you saying that you're not too sure,
against a police officer who would be stating that they
definitely saw you using your phone.
#Post#: 59152--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: Innocent
Date: February 21, 2025, 4:49 am
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Dave I wast planning on using that as a defense. I would say a
never use my phone while driving and the officer was mistaken.
And the benefit of the doubt should go to the defendant.
I just don't want to make my situation worse by being served up
a bad verdict. As I understand it 6 points is on par with
driving with no insurance does anyone know the insurance bump
this will cause?
#Post#: 59157--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: coffee pot
Date: February 21, 2025, 5:06 am
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Your own evidence might consist of your phone logs at that time,
either retrieved from your device or, more impressively,
provided by your service provider. It all depends on how sure
you are you were not on the phone. If, like me you NEVER use
your phone in the car, you may feel sufficiently sure that you
want to pursue this; after all, they might have mistaken the car
or made some other sort of error. You can certainly start by
examining the phone you had with you (I presume that is common
ground) and look at your call logs at and around the time you
were alleged to have committed the offence. Remember that calls
can be made using data too, with WhatsApp for example, so you
need to check those as well. Cut all the emotion out - it simply
clouds your thinking. If you are getting more confident after
checking your phone consider those next steps with your
provider. If your logs aren't helpful you are probably best
taking it on the chin, I suggest.
#Post#: 59158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: Dave Green
Date: February 21, 2025, 5:19 am
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--- Quote from: Innocent link ---
>
> Dave I wast planning on using that as a defense. I would say a
never use my phone while driving and the officer was mistaken.
And the benefit of the doubt should go to the defendant.
--- End Quote ---
As you have already stated that you don't remember using your
phone rather than simply saying you never use it when driving,
using that as a defence in court will be perjury and if the
proof is found of you using it (either from the phone logs or
from your service provider), the outcome could well be far worse
than 6 points on your licence.
As to the benefit of the doubt. There will be a police officer
giving a sworn statement that they saw you on the phone, a
statement that they have no reason to make up and it's highly
probable that the judge will believe them over you.
#Post#: 59162--------------------------------------------------
Re: Using phone whilst driving
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: February 21, 2025, 5:37 am
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To be given the benefit of the doubt the court must first find
that there is some doubt.
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