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#Post#: 11089--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: November 24, 2023, 7:24 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=H C Andersen link=topic=517.msg10505#msg10505
date=1700308560]
> But there are some who would think: you parked; you failed to
make any attempt to look for an applicable traffic sign; it's
your fault.
>
--- End Quote ---
As far as I can work out, there are three applicable signs for
the bay where he parked, one was missing (pending the photo I
asked for), one was obscured by vegetation, and one was far away
and out of sight.
A motorist who parks and gets out of his car is required to look
for signs that are visible, he is not required to walk out of
sight of his car (after all a CEO might come along and issue a
PCN) nor is he required to look behind leaves, branches, bushes
and so on.
If none of the signs were visible, the contravention did not
occur. The fact that the motorist might have incorrectly relied
on an irrelevant sign on the other side of the road would not
alter that.
[/quote]
Thank you for laying this out as this is how I see it now and
will continue to oppose this.
I respect your overview HC Anderson, and agree that my initial
representation was misguided/naive, but ultimately I entered the
road, looked around and the only sign to make sense of the
parking restrictions was the one opposite. I made a mistake, but
so did the council. I want their mistake to be acknowledged
and/or have a financial cost, so will take it as far as
possible.
I really appreciate both of your input here, so thank you
#Post#: 11198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 25, 2023, 10:56 am
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Here is a simple draft:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Waltham Forest,
Having now taken legal advice, I challenge liability on the
basis that the authority has defaulted on its duties under
regulation 18(1)(b) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders
(Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996: there used to
be three regulatory signs for this bay, but the one that would
have been right behind my car has been removed, one was obscured
by vegetation, and the only one that would have been visible was
out of sight at the end of the road.
As there was no signage visible from where I parked my car, the
alleged contravention did not occur. I would also point out that
if the authority saw fit to provide three signs in the first
place, it is under a legal obligation to maintain them.
In light of the above the alleged contravention did not occur.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Send the representation online and keep a screenshot of the
confirmation page. If the council issues a rejection, I'll sort
out the tribunal appeal for you.
#Post#: 11330--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: November 26, 2023, 1:42 pm
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That's wonderful, huge thank you once again cp8759.
Should I include the new photo of the missing signage to
support? and maybe resend covered one - maybe the council don't
know about the missing sign as they don't seem to be maintaining
other signs very well on this street
#Post#: 11334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: November 26, 2023, 2:58 pm
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small edit, 'but' not 'by' after bay,
#Post#: 11381--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 27, 2023, 12:29 pm
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--- Quote from: tommytbone link ---
>
> Should I include the new photo of the missing signage to
support? and maybe resend covered one - maybe the council don't
know about the missing sign as they don't seem to be maintaining
other signs very well on this street
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes you should send the photos, but not for the reasons you
think: the council don't care about your photos, it's unlikely
they'll actually look at them. The reason for including them is
that at the tribunal stage, you can make the point to the
adjudicator that you provided the photos and the council is just
being obtuse.
#Post#: 11405--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: November 27, 2023, 1:36 pm
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That's great. Thank you again for all your help here (and others
contributing too). I'll get this sent off now
#Post#: 13065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: December 29, 2023, 2:50 pm
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Quick update on this,
I've had no response from the council yet, but just noticed that
the charge amount has dropped back to £65 on the portal. Will
keep my eye out for correspondence too
#Post#: 13250--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: January 3, 2024, 7:32 am
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Notice of Rejection of Representation received today and i've
attached their response. What do you think regarding making an
appeal to the adjudicator?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 13275--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: tommytbone
Date: January 3, 2024, 5:05 pm
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I've never been at this stage before and wouldn't say I'm very
clued up about it. Also aware that my initial appeal was pretty
naive and it seems that the person who sent this rejection is
focusing on what I put in it (that I looked at a sign across the
road and presume it to be the same for my bay)
The road still has 1 sign out of 3 originally visible - 1
removed & 1 covered by trees.
#Post#: 13277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 12w Parked in a residents space - York Road
E10 - Covered sign
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: January 3, 2024, 5:10 pm
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Hi OP, CP8759 and I are both regular attenders at the tribunal
(him by phone me in person as I live in London) and both win a
good percentage of our cases, think 80-90%
Either of us will happily start and process the Appeal for you.
If you want me please email an unredacted Notice of Rejection to
mrmustard@zoho.com - it doesn't cost you a bean.
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