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#Post#: 58546--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 17, 2025, 8:35 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Driver liability is irrelevant here I think as they'll serve
an NTO on the keeper regardless.
>
--- End Quote ---
Are you implying that they are very likely to reject my
challenge as the driver and then will eventually send an NTO
unless I have paid?
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> At what stage of the process did the machine give up the
ghost?
>
--- End Quote ---
The machine said "Please wait" when I used contactless payment,
seemed like some network issues with machine. The other
gentleman said exact same issue with another machine he tried.
Who knows coins would have worked but I didn't have any.
#Post#: 58556--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 17, 2025, 9:13 am
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Not an expert on ECNs but I think the same owner liability
applies as per PCNs and the driver identity is irrelevant but I
may be reading it wrong:
[i]it shall be conclusively presumed (notwithstanding that that
person may not be an individual) that he was the driver of the
vehicle at that time and, accordingly, that acts or omissions of
the driver of the vehicle at that time were his acts or
omissions.[/I]
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/part/VIII/crossheading/enforcement-of-excess-parking-charges
So it was at payment stage it failed and no money was taken?
#Post#: 58577--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 17, 2025, 10:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> So it was at payment stage it failed and no money was taken?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, that is right, no money was deducted. Didn't know what else
could be done when the issue was clearly not limited to one
machine and I didn't have any coins. Just decided to leave as
is.
#Post#: 58609--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 17, 2025, 12:17 pm
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[member=2249]stamfordman[/member], this is the first section of
the RTRA you cited:
107 Liability of vehicle owner in respect of excess parking
charge.
(1)This section applies where—
(a)an excess charge has been incurred in pursuance of an order
under sections 45 and 46 of this Act;
However, Royal Parks parking infringements aren't incurred under
ss45 and 46.
But surely there is broader legislation which deals with ECN
procedures?
#Post#: 58613--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 17, 2025, 12:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=2249]stamfordman[/member] @h c Anderson
Thanks for taking interest, it does appear to me appealing and
hoping for best is my best bet. I am sure if I wait for NTO then
the amount will jump to £80 while I can pay £40 right now and
move on.
Will still give appealing a shot, just in case as there doesn't
appear to be any driver Identity issues. Any precedents for
dysfunctional machines as reasonable excuse to fight these?
Any other strong views to prevent me from appealing right now?
(Have another 10+ days TBF)
#Post#: 58624--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: February 17, 2025, 1:15 pm
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ECNs used to turn up on PePiPoo every so often. Including from
the Royal Parks and Epping Forest. And a long case from
Doncaster. The Doncaster case had very comprehensive information
on the subject of ECNs. Alas we no longer have any access.
The standing advice with ECNs was to pay them especially if
there was a discount option still available. That's because
ultimately the case would progress with a summons to a
Magistrate's Court with a charge of failing to pay the ECN. At
that point the merits of the original PCN got lost and it's just
not worth the hassle of trying to defend. Also it's the
Registered Keeper that's ultimately liable if the driver is not
identified or can't be traced.
That said, NSL might be new on the block. Last I recall the ECNs
in the Royal Parks were issued by the Royal Parks Constabulary
who are Police Officers. I think that the Constabulary were
subsumed into the Met Police at some point.
I don't know if there is any requirement or standard practice to
re-offer the discount when a challenge is submitted within 14
days. Probably not.
See what others have to say.
#Post#: 58649--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 17, 2025, 4:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think there's a good chance they'll cancel given the machine
faults.
#Post#: 58754--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 18, 2025, 10:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As an update, I have appealed online and received an
"acknowledgement" email.
It doesn't appear to freeze the 14 day discount window, so
likely I would need to pay up in the next 12 days in case of no
response or rejection. Will update here if it the appeal is
somehow honoured.
Thanks all.
#Post#: 59834--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 27, 2025, 1:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Got a rejection response to my appeal. Not that it matters but
it does appear that they reset the 14 day period with the
response. Will pay in a couple of days, unless advised otherwise
here.
Pasting the reply below:
______________________________________________
26/02/2025
Dear Mr xxxx,
Ticket Number RK2051xxxxx
Issued on
16/02/2025
Vehicle Registration
XXXXXX
Location
West Carriage Drive
I am in receipt of your correspondence regarding the above
Excess Charge Notice.
The above vehicle was parked in a Pay & Display bay without
displaying a valid Pay & Display ticket, therefore, the Excess
Charge Notice has been issued correctly.
According to the evidence collected by the Parking Attendant, no
Pay & Display ticket was seen. Please note a valid Pay &
Display ticket is only valid for use for parking when displayed
in accordance with regulations in the windscreen of a vehicle.
I note from your correspondence that you were unable to make
payment due to an issue with the Pay & Display machine. I
acknowledge your comments, however, please be advised, the onus
is on the driver to make payment for parking before leaving the
vehicle, or alternative legal parking should be sought.
It is never possible for all ticket machines to be out of order
in our parks. In every location we have at least two or three
machines. If one machine is not working for any reason, the
customer should call the help line number where they are advised
to use the nearest machine which is usually 3-4 minutes away.
I have carefully considered the points you have raised in your
challenge but have decided not to cancel your Excess Charge
Notice.
You are, therefore, requested to comply with the Excess Charge
Notice. However, the reduced charge of £40.00 will still be
accepted provided payment is received within 14 days of the date
of this letter. Failure to make payment will result in the full
Excess Charge Notice of £80.00 becoming due.
If you still wish to dispute this Excess Charge Notice, the DVLA
registered keeper will be sent a Notice to Owner who may make
formal representation against the Excess Charge Notice. Please
note, the full charge of £80.00 will be applicable at the Notice
to Owner stage.
Failure to make payment or submit a formal representation will
result in the progression of the Excess Charge Notice resulting
in the debt being passed to Trace Debt Recovery UK Ltd to
recover the outstanding balance on behalf of Royal Parks. Once
the debt has been passed to Trace Debt Recovery UK Ltd, we will
not be able to accept any payments. You will need to contact
them directly.
Payment Options
• Phone 03432082089.
• Online
HTML https://parkingservices.nsl.co.uk/royalparks/notices/default.asp
• Post Cheques are required to be made payable to ‘Royal
Parks’; please include your Excess Charge Notice number, vehicle
registration number, and address on the back; then send it to:
#Post#: 59858--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 27, 2025, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 8vaibhav link ---
>
>
> I note from your correspondence that you were unable to make
payment due to an issue with the Pay & Display machine. I
acknowledge your comments, however, please be advised, the onus
is on the driver to make payment for parking before leaving the
vehicle, or alternative legal parking should be sought.
>
> It is never possible for all ticket machines to be out of
order in our parks. In every location we have at least two or
three machines. If one machine is not working for any reason,
the customer should call the help line number where they are
advised to use the nearest machine which is usually 3-4 minutes
away.
>
--- End Quote ---
Never possible? Well you were informed that another machine was
also out of order. Customer helpline? Is there one - and chances
of it being answered probably low.
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