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#Post#: 58431--------------------------------------------------
ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 16, 2025, 4:10 pm
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Driver tried paying for parking but the machine was stuck at
"Please wait" message. Had another person walk by who said
another machine was giving the same message when trying to pay
by card.
Please see picture of the machine:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/0EH2Jsa.jpeg
Driver concluded machines were likely not working and ended up
not paying for parking. Sure enough was greeted by the below ECN
on the windshield (inside a yellow sticker) when he came back to
the vehicle.
Asks to pay £40 within 2 weeks or £80 if later!
What's the best approach here? Can the non-identification of the
driver be used to get out of this like it can be from (PCN)
Parking Charge Notices? I never heard of an ECN before and have
no prior experience in dealing with this as the keeper. What are
my options? Driver genuinely tried paying on the machine but it
wasn't working!!
Please see relevant pictures:
ECN Redacted:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/KQneNmy.jpeg
BACK:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/GJV2xJW.jpeg
Venue Signage:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/oTEzMds.jpeg
#Post#: 58439--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens Parking Machine not working
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 16, 2025, 5:18 pm
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Wow, we haven't seen this sort of thing for a long time !
It's an Excess Charge Notice, (ECN), and comes under the
regulations they cite on the ECN. Best if you go to their
suggested website to see what the score is, but normally these
things are under the criminal law, not the civil law, but my
knowledge of these peculiar regulations is almost non-existent,
However, I do wonder at the reference to a "Notice to Owner" on
the ECN, because this is a specific statutory document within
the de-criminalised legislation for traffic and parking
contraventions only.
Anyway, I have had a quick look through the regulations, (what a
pain !!), and nowhere in any of them is any reference made to
"Notice to Owner". There is nothing at all about submitting
representations or any formal structure for their receipt and
assessment. So my conclusion is that enforcement is a matter for
the magistrates courts but I may be wrong on this, so wait until
others have contributed.
#Post#: 58454--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: lexy
Date: February 16, 2025, 11:54 pm
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That is a mess. Notice to Owner on an excess charge that
requires the *driver* to pay it?
I seem to remember there was some discussion a long time ago
about whether the enforcement of excess charges could be
outsourced to companies like NSL in the way penalty charge
notices can. Not sure if that came to anything.
The main thing you need to know is that this is not a penalty
charge notice. It is an excess charge notice. They are
completely different. 99% of what you find online about parking
tickets won’t apply to this.
Excess charge notices are very rare and you don’t have the same
right to appeal, and you can potentially end up in court on a
criminal charge for non-payment.
#Post#: 58455--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 17, 2025, 12:58 am
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--- Quote from: lexy link ---
>
> That is a mess. Notice to Owner on an excess charge that
requires the *driver* to pay it?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's not a Notice to Owner as of now. The ECN was stuck on the
windshield and addresses the driver directly to pay £40.
The back of the ECN states that if the charges aren't paid by
the driver within 28 days they "may" issue a Notice to Owner by
looking of DVLA details at that point.
#Post#: 58456--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 17, 2025, 1:06 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Best if you go to their suggested website to see what the
score is,
>
--- End Quote ---
Many thanks for your reply. I did visit the website, it does
have an option to "appeal", though first step was entering all
contact details, which I didn't do. What do you mean by "the
score"? Please elaborate, I don't think I understood one bit.
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Anyway, I have had a quick look through the regulations, (what
a pain !!), and nowhere in any of them is any reference made to
"Notice to Owner". There is nothing at all about submitting
representations or any formal structure for their receipt and
assessment. So my conclusion is that enforcement is a matter for
the magistrates courts but I may be wrong on this, so wait until
others have contributed.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks so much for digging these for me. As advised I will wait
for others to respond. Thanks again
#Post#: 58468--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 17, 2025, 4:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"see what the score is" is the same as this: -
HTML https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/know%20the%20score
#Post#: 58478--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 17, 2025, 4:36 am
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They are following the same two step process as for a usual
windscreen parking PCN - it's just that the final appeal stage
of London Tribunals is not open to you.
I would politely challenge it with the picture evidence of the
machine not responding and the the info about another machine
you heard.
#Post#: 58496--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 17, 2025, 5:36 am
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The regs themselves are pretty limited(you can peruse fairly
quickly by logging on to this website
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk
and inputting Hyde Park and
Regents Park in the search field and selecting 'All secondary
legislation' in the 'Type' field).
Look at the Explanatory Notes for each set of regs to give you a
quick overview.
You won't find anything resembling the minute detail of process
we see with decriminalised road traffic contraventions but
simply 'a person' who fails to comply with regs, 'excess charge'
and 'proceedings'. There must be other regs (not specific to
Royal Parks) which deal with the issue of liability (for an
excess charge) and how this may be pursued.
#Post#: 58531--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: February 17, 2025, 7:34 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> They are following the same two step process as for a usual
windscreen parking PCN - it's just that the final appeal stage
of London Tribunals is not open to you.
>
> I would politely challenge it with the picture evidence of the
machine not responding and the the info about another machine
you heard.
>
--- End Quote ---
Many thanks, so should I "politely challenge" as the driver and
hope for the best?
The whole "unknown driver" Vs. "known keeper" dynamic of
Privately issued Parking Charge Notices is not relevant here at
all? With no point of trying to not reveal who the driver was?
(Apologies if this is obvious, I got this wrong for private PCNs
so want to be doubly sure)
Many thanks
#Post#: 58542--------------------------------------------------
Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 17, 2025, 8:13 am
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Driver liability is irrelevant here I think as they'll serve an
NTO on the keeper regardless.
At what stage of the process did the machine give up the ghost?
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