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#Post#: 58415--------------------------------------------------
Private PCN in estate
DIR By: whydothistome
Date: February 16, 2025, 2:40 pm
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Hi all,
This PCN was put on the windscreen of my vehicle (I am the
keeper but was not the driver). The driver drove into an estate
with no entrance signage or ANPR, went looking for a sign to
read the terms, in the 60 seconds they had left the vehicle to
do this a PCN was on the window.
I'm guessing this is why the observed from time is "N/A" but
regardless the time was way shorter than how long it would take
someone to find and read a sign.
Appreciate any advice and thanks!
PCN
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ov2tfNP.jpeg
Entrance from google maps
HTML https://i.imgur.com/rjHFE2s.png
Entrance pics I took
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ggkgdVy.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/xQHPzWC.jpeg
Only sign on site - about 8/9 ft up
HTML https://i.imgur.com/3d58uWf.jpeg
#Post#: 58452--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: b789
Date: February 16, 2025, 9:41 pm
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Please do not redact any dates. The Notice to Driver (NtD) is
not compliant with PoFA and so they cannot hold the Keeper
liable. They do not know the drivers identity and, as the
Keeper, whether you were the driver or not, you must not provide
that information, inadvertently or otherwise.
There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the
drivers identity and to an unregulated private parking company.
Always refer to the drivers identity and in the third person. No
“I parked here or there”, only “the driver parked here or
there”.
For now, you do nothing. On day 27 after the date of the PCN you
will appeal it, only as the Keeper. We will give you the
necessary wording to use.
The reason for this is that some parking companies will respond
to the appeal without issuing a Notice to Keeper (NtK) which is
yet another breach of PoFA which can be used against them at
POPLA or even in court as they will always reject the initial
appeal anyway.
So, do you require assistance with the initial appeal which will
need to be submitted electronically on day 27 (which is another
reason we need all dates and times un-redacted?
#Post#: 58484--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: Dave65
Date: February 17, 2025, 4:49 am
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And another issue of the £100 been hidden in the small print.
#Post#: 58536--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: b789
Date: February 17, 2025, 7:54 am
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--- Quote from: Dave65 link ---
>
> And another issue of the £100 been hidden in the small print.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes... but they will not consider that at initial appeal stage.
That can be considered at POPLA and, if necessary at court.
No contract was formed with that woefully inadequate signage.
#Post#: 58611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: whydothistome
Date: February 17, 2025, 12:30 pm
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Please do not redact any dates.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes sorry went a bit OTT with the PII removal. It was on 15 Feb
and yes I am not the driver just the keeper.
What do I write in the appeal since it sounds like they will
automatically knock me back?
#Post#: 58621--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: b789
Date: February 17, 2025, 1:12 pm
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SO, on Friday 7th March submit the following appeal, only as the
Keeper:
--- Quote ---
> I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement, and I
will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct
to your client landowner.
>
> Your Notice to Driver (NtD) fails to comply with the
requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act
2012 (PoFA). Specifically, it does not specify a "period of
parking", only an instant in time. As a result, you cannot
transfer liability to the registered keeper. The burden of
proving who was driving does not rest with the keeper, and there
will be no admission as to the identity of the driver. No
assumptions or inferences can be made in this regard.
>
> Since liability cannot be established against the keeper, you
must either pursue the driver (who I am under no legal
obligation to identify) or cancel this charge. Should you choose
to reject this appeal, I require you to provide a full
explanation of how you believe the NtD complies with PoFA in
every respect.
>
> Elite Park Management have no hope at POPLA and so you are
urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the
PCN.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 64718--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: whydothistome
Date: March 29, 2025, 4:51 am
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Received this very short and 0 rational rejection. It came with
a POPLA code how should I formulate a POPLA appeal?
HTML https://i.imgur.com/H8FYAqM.png
#Post#: 64723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: jfollows
Date: March 29, 2025, 5:52 am
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Why do you keep on removing dates? It might not be relevant
here, but I can’t see how revealing them is in any way
problematic!
#Post#: 64730--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: whydothistome
Date: March 29, 2025, 6:14 am
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Yeah sorry a bit too cautious on my end. If in doubt I'd rather
remove and reveal later.
#Post#: 64750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private PCN in estate
DIR By: b789
Date: March 29, 2025, 8:41 am
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Please take your tin foil hat off if you want our assistance and
advice. The dates of any notice are highly relevant when working
out any PoFA breaches.
There is no dark room somewhere, filled with hooded youths
scouring the internet for your post about a PCN ad then doing
something ( I can't imagine what) which that information.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/YXjVPj7.jpeg
So, what was the date the NtD was issued? The reason this is
required is because paragraph 8(5) of PoFA comes into play. If
you're going to make it difficult for us, then you can go look
up what that paragraph is and figure out why.
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