DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 58388--------------------------------------------------
DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: robbieuk
Date: February 16, 2025, 12:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All, would appreciate some further guidance please.
Unfortunately at the time PCN was received, August 2024, I was
going through separation with registered keeper and therefore
initial appeal was done by me as a driver and not registered
keeper. Not surprisingly it was rejected. By the way I have
never received an appeal outcome and only seen it in November
when dcbl have sent it to me by email.
Quick overview of what have happened so far.
Back in July I parked in ROM Valley retail Park which is
operated by Uk Parking Control Limited. As I had a passenger
with mobility issues, I parked as far as I can from the car on
the left but the car I was driving went over the white line on
the right side. If there would have been a parking space to the
right, I then would have parked somewhere else as car park was
pretty empty, but as there was quite a gap to the right, I did
not think much of it.
Obviously dcbl letters started floating to my address. I have
sent them emails stating that contravention did not occur and I
owe nothing. They have replied to me couple of times but the
last email from dcbl was received on 29th January 2025.
Correspondence team has notified me that their client instructed
them to close this case and as such, dcbl will not be pursuing
this balance further.
It was not until this week when I checked my letter box and
there was a letter of claim from dcb legal that was issued on
27th January 2025. They gave me 30 days to make a payment or to
complete the Reply Form and financial statement. There is a link
in a letter that is supposed to be completed with the reply and
financial statement.
I have never been in situation before where the letter of claim
has arrived and would appreciate your input of what the best
course of action would be net please. I will attached few
pictures of what I could find at the moment.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/IMzPhhZ
HTML https://imgur.com/eveXyEL
HTML https://imgur.com/zNWr2k5
HTML https://imgur.com/HhqXZF1
HTML https://imgur.com/aUA9jmr
HTML https://imgur.com/RITVSN2
HTML https://imgur.com/ngiCTmu
#Post#: 58400--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: b789
Date: February 16, 2025, 12:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Welcome. If only you hadn't blabbed the drivers identity, this
could have been resolved in an easier manner. Never mind, it is
still going to be dealt with. No one who is here receiving
advice and following it pays a penny to UKPC.
Was the original Parking Charge Notice issued as windscreen
Notice to Driver (NtD) or as a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK). I
would need to see the original NtD or NtK. Reminders are of no
use. Make sure that ALL dates and times are not redacted.
Did you appeal to POPLA? If so, what exactly did you put in that
appeal?
When you say the initial appeal was made by you, as the driver,
at some point before this, did the Registered Keeper (RK)
transfer liability to you as the driver? If not, I am surprised
that they accepted any appeal that wasn't from the named Keeper.
You mention that the passenger had "mobility issues". Did the
passenger have a blue badge? Are the mobility issues you mention
due to "protected characteristics" according to the Equality Act
2010?
--- Quote ---
> 1. Protected Characteristic – Disability is one of the
protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010.
>
> 2. Reasonable Adjustments – Businesses, service providers, and
landowners have a legal duty to make reasonable adjustments for
disabled individuals, which can include:
>
> [indent]• Allowing extra time for parking if the person
requires longer to get in and out of the vehicle or access
services.
> • Providing wider parking spaces or step-free access.
> • Adjusting policies to accommodate disabled people.[/indent]
>
> 3. Indirect Discrimination – If a parking operator or
landowner enforces rigid time limits without considering the
needs of disabled individuals, it may constitute indirect
discrimination under Section 19 of the Act.
>
> 4. Public & Private Land – While the Act applies to public
bodies, it also applies to private companies offering services
to the public, such as private parking operators.
>
> How This Applies to Parking:
>
> [indent]• If a disabled driver or passenger needs extra time
due to their condition, a rigid enforcement of time limits could
be unlawful.
> • If a parking operator refuses to consider an appeal from a
disabled person who overstayed due to their mobility issues,
they may be in breach of the Act.
> • Parking operators should allow reasonable adjustments, such
as extra time for disabled individuals, even if they do not
display a Blue Badge (as the Act protects disabled people
regardless of the badge scheme).
--- End Quote ---
Before we go on with advice on how to respond to the Letter of
Claim (LoC), please answer the questions I have asked.
#Post#: 58411--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: robbieuk
Date: February 16, 2025, 2:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much for your reply b789 - much appreciated.
I would not have appealed as a driver if only there would have
been a better timing in our relationship with the registered
keeper. However as she wanted nothing to do with me at that time
I had no other choice than to fill that appeal online myself.
I can also confirm that Parking Charge Notice was issued as a
postal Notice to Keeper (NtK). I will go through all the letters
once again tomorrow and will upload it here as soon as I found
the original notice.
There was no appeal done to POPLA. Following that online appeal
to UKPC I expected a some sort of letter to be sent to me and
there was nothing at all. I think it was not until 3rd October
when I started receiving letters from DCBL that I understood
that the original appeal was not considered at all.
At no time did registered keeper transfer any liability to me. I
was passed on a letter by the registered keeper and was told to
deal myself as it was me who was driving that day. I have
submitted appeal via their website. The email that DCBL sent me
shows the actual appeal and also shows who submitted the appeal.
To be honest I was surprised myself that they have accepted the
appeal that I was done initially by me as I thought they require
registered keeper to state who was the driver. However on other
hand it does not surprise me at all knowing length these
companies go nowdays to rip people off…
Should I take a screenshot of the full appeal form? I imagine I
would need to hide my name, address and contact details and
leave the rest in there?
In regards of the passenger I will ask her what exactly is her
condition called and if it is considered a disability or not.
From what I remember it was initially caused by vertigo and
after year and a half continuous struggle doctors have
recognised that she will not recover from the condition at all.
The condition makes her unstable, dizzy and she needs help when
getting to/from the car, she needs support when walking outside,
etc.
Also, there are few emails that I have sent to DCBL. Should I
take screenshots of them, remove my details and upload too?
#Post#: 58532--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: b789
Date: February 17, 2025, 7:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Where is the image of the original NtK?
This wording is problematic:
--- Quote ---
> Following that online appeal to UKPC I expected a some sort of
letter to be sent to me and there was nothing at all. I think it
was not until 3rd October when I started receiving letters from
DCBL that I understood that the original appeal was not
considered at all.
--- End Quote ---
But your appeal was considered. You clearly received an appeal
rejection from UKPC and a POPLA code. What else were you
"expecting" to receive if you didn't appeal to POPLA?
Whilst it is very unlikely that this will ever get as far as a
hearing because the MO of DCB Legal is to discontinue any claims
as long as they are defended, we need to consider any procedural
weaknesses.
1. The Appeal Rejection Letter Acts as a Demand for Payment
[indent]• The driver voluntarily appealed, admitting they were
the driver.
• UKPC responded directly to the driver, rejecting the appeal
and giving the options:
[indent]• Pay the charge, or;
• Appeal to POPLA.[/indent]
• This serves the same function as a PCN—it informs the driver
of their liability and next steps.[/indent]
2. No Legal Requirement to Reissue a PCN in the Driver’s Name
[indent]• Since the driver identified themselves and engaged
with the process, UKPC was not required to send a new PCN.
• Instead, the rejection letter effectively took the place of a
formal PCN in this case.
• The driver had the chance to appeal to POPLA but chose not to,
meaning they exhausted their internal appeals.[/indent]
3. Procedural Flaw Argument Is Weakened
[indent]• Because the driver received the rejection letter
directly, they were aware of the charge and had the same
opportunities as if a PCN had been reissued.
• While UKPC's failure to reissue a PCN is unusual, it does not
significantly disadvantage the driver because:
[indent]• They had notice of the charge.
• They had a chance to appeal.
• They chose not to escalate to POPLA.[/indent]
• This weakens any procedural unfairness argument.[/indent]
4. Impact on Any Future Legal Proceedings
[indent]• When UKPC issues a court claim through DCB Legal, the
driver cannot argue they were unaware of the charge since they
received an appeal rejection.
• However, they can still challenge the substance of the claim,
including:
[indent]• Whether the charge was properly issued.
• Whether UKPC complied with the Private Parking Code of
Practice.
•The fairness and proportionality of the
charge.[/indent][/indent]
So, for now, respond to the LoC by emailing info@dcblegal.co.uk
and also CC in yourself the following:
--- Quote ---
> Dear Sirs,
>
> Re: Letter of Claim dated 20th January 2025
>
> I refer to your Letter of Claim.
>
> I confirm that my address for service at this time is as
follows, and I formally request that any other addresses you
hold with regards to the PCN be erased from your records to
ensure compliance with your UK GDPR obligations under the Data
Protection Act 2018.
>
> [current postal address]
>
> Please note that the alleged debt is fully disputed, and any
court proceedings will be robustly defended.
>
> The driver made a reasonable adjustment to assist a passenger
with mobility difficulties in accordance with the Equality Act
2010. The minor encroachment into a non-adjoining cross-hatched
area was necessary for the disabled passenger to exit and
re-enter the vehicle.
>
> Under the PAP, I require an answer to the following questions
regarding procedural fairness and the Equality Act 2010:
>
> [indent]• Why did your client fail to consider this as a
mitigating factor before rejecting the appeal?
> • Under Section 20 of the Equality Act 2010, service providers
must make reasonable adjustments—why did your client not
exercise discretion in this case?[/indent]
>
> If this matter proceeds to court, I will invite the court to
assess whether your client’s refusal to consider a reasonable
adjustment amounts to indirect discrimination under Section 19
of the Equality Act 2010.
>
> I also note that the sum claimed has been artificially
inflated by an excessive and unjustifiable amount. All charges
and fees must be clearly justified and proportionate.
>
> Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (PAP), I also
require specific answers to the following questions:
>
> [indent]1. Debt Recovery & Additional Charges
>
> [indent]• Does the additional £70 represent what you describe
as a "Debt Recovery" fee?
> • If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT?
> • If inclusive, why am I – as the alleged debtor – being asked
to cover your client’s VAT liability?[/indent]
>
> 2. Legal Basis for the Alleged Charge
>
> [indent]• Is the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge
Notice (PCN) being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or
is it being pleaded as consideration for a purported parking
contract?
> • If it is being claimed as consideration for a contractual
service (i.e., a parking fee), then VAT must be applied and
accounted for. Please confirm whether your client has declared
this to HMRC.[/indent][/indent]
>
> I caution you against vague or boilerplate responses, as I am
fully aware of the implications. If your client is claiming that
PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt
recovery element, this raises serious concerns about compliance
with HMRC regulations and financial fairness under the PPSCoP.
>
> I strongly advise your client to cease and desist from
pursuing this matter. Should this proceed to court:
>
> [indent]• These issues will be brought to the court’s
attention.
> • A robust defence will be filed, challenging the
enforceability of this charge.
> • I will consider applying for unreasonable costs under CPR
27.14(2)(g) if your client proceeds with a legally unsound
claim.[/indent]
>
> I expect a full response to these points in compliance with
the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> [YOUR NAME]
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 58724--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: robbieuk
Date: February 18, 2025, 8:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much b789,
I am on night shift this week so my head is little bit over the
place.
I found the original NtK and uploaded to imgur
HTML https://imgur.com/A2t772e
HTML https://imgur.com/tVJOh22
In regards of the messed up wording I meant the following -
I was expecting to receive either a new NtK issued to the driver
and sent to my postal address or I was expecting a rejection
letter to the original appeal and then look at options available
after that.
At no point I have received any communication from UKCL issued
to the driver. The appeal rejection letter was sent to me by
DCBL by email on 21st November when I mentioned procedural
failures related to appeal in the email that I sent to them. So
the procedural weakness number 2. only partially applies as I
could not appeal to POPLA as I have not received an appeal
rejection. Following that procedural weakness number 3 is not
applicable as the very first time that I found out about appeal
rejection is 3rd October when DCBL sent me Notice Of Debt
recovery.
Hope this clarifies the appeal and appeal rejection situation.
#Post#: 58736--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: b789
Date: February 18, 2025, 9:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Can you confirm that you have responded to the LoC as advised
and that we are now waiting for their response?
#Post#: 58769--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: robbieuk
Date: February 18, 2025, 11:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Can you confirm that you have responded to the LoC as advised
and that we are now waiting for their response?
>
--- End Quote ---
Not yet. As I uploaded NtK in the afternoon earlier and made a
comment regarding the appeal, I thought just to wait for your
reply in case response to the LoC needs to be tweaked.
I just woke up, seen your request to confirm about response, and
will go to reply to LoC with your earlier kindly provided text.
#Post#: 58787--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: robbieuk
Date: February 18, 2025, 2:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Can you confirm that you have responded to the LoC as advised
and that we are now waiting for their response?
>
--- End Quote ---
I can now confirm that I have responded to the LoC as advised
and we are now waiting for their response. Thank you very much
for your kind assistance so far
#Post#: 58798--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: estevenin
Date: February 18, 2025, 3:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
Have you used their letter or did you do it online ? If the
former, you should not reply with a letter, and should not
disclose any financial details. Instead, do it online where you
can have an acknoledgement of receipt, or better yet, by email.
This is what I wrote to UKPC in a similar case than yours. You
can always write this as well even if you'v already wrote by
email (they will still keep the other communication as evidence
if they need to)
If you receive a letter of claim, they are likely to continue,
except if they receive a defence. And especially one where they
can smell how much it will cost for them to pursue vs. the
amount claim to you.
The following will put them off :
===
Dear Sir, Madam
I acknowledge your letter of claim. The debt pursued in this
claim is disputed and any court proceedings will be defended in
full. As I am now seeking for independant debt advice, I ask the
matter to be put on hold for 30 additional days, according to
the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').
The amount being claimed has been increased from it's original
amount, in an excessive, unreasonable way. The UK governmement
has name this practice : "extorting money from motorists".
Also according to the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017,
please respond to the following questions :
- If the extra £50 added to the original PCN, are what you would
call a 'Debt Recovery' fee, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If
inclusive of VAT, please explain why am I beeing asked to pay
for UKPC's VAT ?
- Regarding the alledged debt, what is this debt for ? Damages,
or consideration for parking ?
Thank you in advance for your cooperation, please use the
following address for my address of service : XXXXX / XXXXX /
XXXXX, any other information must be erased from your records,
and please confirm any email of service where I can get direct
access to the solicitor in charge of this case.
Best regards,
XXX
===
I am puzzled by your last image where they said that UKCP has
instructed them to give up, so just respond and this will very
likely go away.
In the unlikely event that it doesn't, many arguments mentionned
above will get that claim won or discontinued. The claim itself
is completely absurd "Not parked within the lines", I have seen
this before : There is an odd sign somewhere, where it says that
you must park inside the lines, and must not get out of the car
until you do. But you obviously have to get our of the car to
see that sign...
#Post#: 58799--------------------------------------------------
Re: DCB Legal Letter of Claim - Uk Parking Control Limited
DIR By: b789
Date: February 18, 2025, 3:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Do NOT add the "As I am now seeking for independant [sic] debt
advice, I ask the matter to be put on hold for 30 additional
days, according to the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017
('the PAP')." unless you need the extra time for a particular
reason. Why on earth would you want to prolong an already
protracted process by another month?
This used to be used to give the defendant time to get an SAR.
However, since the Chan and Akande persuasive appeals decisions,
you do not want to give the claimant ammunition and should let
them file their claims with all the CPR flaws.
It never fails to amuse me how many people rush to respond to an
LoC with the above sentence just days after receiving the LoC.
The extra 30 days only applies from the date you request it. It
is not simply added to the end of the initial 30 days. These
people then wonder why they receive a claim after just 5 weeks
from the initial LoC!
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 3
DIR Next Page