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#Post#: 58319--------------------------------------------------
Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: Glitch Date: February 16, 2025, 3:56 am
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Another PCN picked up by my friend. ::)
Says he's parked there in the past with no problems :o ::)
The perils of running a business in London.
GSV
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4905329,-0.0990476,3a,90y,160.23h,95.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s-A4BfPMvazdyyxQKj-MQgw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-5.0844030502044575%26panoid%3D-A4BfPMvazdyyxQKj-MQgw%26yaw%3D160.22570513029402!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDU1SAFQAw%3D%3D<br
/> Buts it's way of date (2016)
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#Post#: 58331--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: b789 Date: February 16, 2025, 5:32 am
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Is there an entrance sign to the location warning drivers that
it is private land and that parking is controlled and that terms
and conditions apply?
Can you get photos of the sign without using flash as the
operator has done in their evidential photos? It would appear
that their signs could not form a contract if they are unlit or
high up on the wall at the time of night.
The NtK does appear to be PoFA compliant except for the "period
of parking" which is not stated, even though their evidential
photos show the vehicle in situ for 8 minutes and 30 seconds.
The NtK is required to state the "period of parking and not
simply a moment in time. Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions
(2023)
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1b9rpna57dutsetdgwi60/Brennan-v-Premier-Parking-Plymouth-CC-Judgment-20230821-V-Final_-14.pdf?rlkey=203u1fav6fve811lz8cm8wpwx&st=ip9gdo9l&dl=0<br
/>applies.
#Post#: 58396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: Glitch Date: February 16, 2025, 12:43 pm
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Thanks.
He's going to try to get photos.
What's the deadline before losing the 'discount'?
#Post#: 58402--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: b789 Date: February 16, 2025, 1:09 pm
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If you're only interested in the "mugs discount" I won't be
wasting any more of my time. You either believe that the PCN has
been issued unfairly and you are prepared to fight it with our
assistance or save us the waste of time if you are only
interested in being scammed into paying a speculative invoice
because it offers a 40% "mugs discount".
The discount period expired 14 days after the NtK was issued,
two days ago on Valentines day.
#Post#: 58429--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: Glitch Date: February 16, 2025, 3:35 pm
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Just interested to know the milestones.
Wasn't sure if it was 20th/21st/22nd. Notice given 7th.
He didn't actually receive it in the post until 14th.
Wondering if he needs a deadline to get the photos, which might
conclude the signage is fine (although it does look high up and
not lit)
I'm not familiar with the Private PCN process so the assistance
on here is always appreciated.
Council PCNs sometimes have no hope of success at Tribunal so
the advice might be to pay up.
If Private PCNs are still viewed as speculative invoices then I
guess it's a case of being prepared to go to small claims court
which we were, on a previous case.
#Post#: 58450--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: b789 Date: February 16, 2025, 9:14 pm
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The mugs discount period is 14 days from the date the PCN is
issued. The appeal and debt recovery deadlines are 28 days from
the deemed date of receipt which is normally 2 working days
after the issue date.
The NtK shown is compliant with regards to PoFA 9(4)(b).
If there is doubt that the PoFA deadline was compliant such that
the actual date of posting (the date the notice was physically
entered into the postal system) is disputed, the operator is
obliged to evidence a proof of posting certificate or other
acceptable evidence from a mail consolidator of the actual date.
Simply proving that the notice was generated on a particular
date is not enough. Also, a certificate of posting through a
hybrid mail system is not proof of the date the notice entered
the postal system.
#Post#: 58471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: Glitch Date: February 17, 2025, 4:23 am
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The PCN says discount period starts from date postal
notification is given, 7th Feb. Same in previous private PCN he
got.
Sounds like they probably can't prove date of posting. Might be
useful later I guess.
As an aside the OCRphosphor printing on the envelope contains
date and time the sorting office first read it (still not date
of posting), but they don't publish how to decode it.
#Post#: 58534--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: b789 Date: February 17, 2025, 7:51 am
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The PPSCoP states that the discount period is from the issue
date of the PCN. If the operator wants to extend that to 14 days
from the date the notice is "given", that is their prerogative.
It cannot be any less than 14 days from the issue date.
The PPSCoP states in section 8.1.2(e) Note 2: "[i]A notice sent
by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to
have been delivered on the second working day after the day on
which it is posted; and for this purpose, “working day” means
any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in
England and Wales. Therefore, parking operators must retain a
record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that
notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party
Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)[/I]"
(My emphasis)
So, the operator is required under the PPSCoP to retain an
evidential record of the date the notice was physically put into
the postal system. Whilst most will not have this evidence and
instead try to rely on a "certificate of posting" generated by
their own internal system that links to the third-party Mail
Consolidator which will only show the date and time that the
notice was sent through hybrid mail system to the consolidator.
It is not a "proof of posting certificate" or evidence of any
sort tat is acceptable.
#Post#: 58547--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: Glitch Date: February 17, 2025, 8:42 am
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Photos as requested.
Obviously these were taken in daylight.
There doesn't appear to be any illumination of the signs.
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#Post#: 58561--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
By: b789 Date: February 17, 2025, 9:37 am
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It would be even better if you could get photos of the signs
after dark, without any flash or headlights illuminating them.
Also, they need to appear as you would see them from several
feet away.
The point is to show that the signs are not prominent at the
time that the alleged contravention took place. There is a
requirement for the signs to "adequately" bring the charge to
the notice of the driver. If it was dark and the signs are
unlit, how does the sign "adequately" bring the charge to the
notice of the driver?
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