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#Post#: 58163--------------------------------------------------
PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9 Cabbell
St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: runninghorse
Date: February 14, 2025, 3:12 pm
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Dear FTLA team,
Please can you advise if there may be any ground for me to
appeal a code 12r as I parked my car on a permit holders spot?
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/TqPhsWx1ozaWndg97
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/TqPhsWx1ozaWndg97
[member=1]cp8759[/member] much appreciated if you can help.
Many thanks!
HTML https://i.imgur.com/VWLrqOE.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/FpTKftI.jpeg
#Post#: 58173--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 14, 2025, 5:12 pm
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Why do you think there may be grounds to challenge it?
#Post#: 58176--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: runninghorse
Date: February 14, 2025, 5:27 pm
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I think there may be a ground to appeal as the observation time
was clearly not respected, when looking at the Westminster
website:
HTML https://appeals.westminster.gov.uk/
HTML https://appeals.westminster.gov.uk/
--- Quote ---
> First seen at
> Fri, 14 Feb 2025 18:01
>
> Issued at
> Fri, 14 Feb 2025 18:01
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 58229--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 15, 2025, 7:19 am
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[member=4443]runninghorse[/member] observation times only exist
to reduce the risk of PCNs being issued in error, they are not a
defence. So for instance if a CEO issued a PCN with no
observation time and you were walking back to the car with a
visitor permit, the council would incur the cost in issuing the
PCN and you would have the inconvenience of having to challenge
it, but that's not the defence, the defence would be that you
had gone to get a visitor permit and were returning with the
permit without delay.
The same applied to loading and unloading, assisted boarding or
alighting of passengers and so on.
However if the contravention did occur, the fact that the CEO
didn't follow the observation time is irrelevant.
Looking at the council photos, the contravention does appear to
be made out and the sign appears to be not far behind your car:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/rXGLVsm.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ryb514Z.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/V2ofxpN.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/uz3H3hz.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/b46K3og.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/emnQTC3.jpeg
GSV:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/7Bispk4xs4BvuSwf6
The traffic order is The City of Westminster (Parking Places) (F
Zone) (Consolidation No.1) Order 2011
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tXCBtT2QUoW_msw-4JXxBt3WJ2th2g67/view<br
/>and the relevant entry is item 147 on page 45, I can't see any
obvious issues with the order but someone else might spot
something.
In a case like this it would be best to get the background: why
were you parked there, how long were you parked for, did you
look for signs, and did you see any signs?
You obviously parked in a bay and while it is possible we might
find a technical way out, it's much easier for us to help you if
you can tell us whether there was an issue with the signage,
whether you simply didn't look or whether you assumed that given
the time of day it would be OK to park there.
#Post#: 58242--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: runninghorse
Date: February 15, 2025, 7:55 am
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Thank you very much cp8759. I simply parked just a few minutes
before 6pm thinking it should be fine at that time of the day
for 15 to 20 minutes or so, which is as naive clearly.
#Post#: 58244--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 15, 2025, 8:00 am
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Were you visiting a local resident, or doing something else?
#Post#: 58248--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: runninghorse
Date: February 15, 2025, 8:13 am
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In fact I was going for a quick viewing of a flat that may be up
for rent
#Post#: 58250--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 15, 2025, 8:17 am
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And was the issue of parking or parking permits not discussed?
Anyway my suggestion is to make a one-line representation saying
that the alleged contravention did not occur. This will
hopefully allow you to go down the same route as this case
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/westminster-council-parked-in-restricted-street-during-prescribed-hours/.
#Post#: 58254--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: runninghorse
Date: February 15, 2025, 8:51 am
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Thanks a lot cp…unfortunately we didn’t discuss that. Shall I
just state “the alleged contravention did not occur”?
#Post#: 58255--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN, City of Westminster, code 12r, 9 Cabbell Street 9
Cabbell St, London NW1 5BA
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 15, 2025, 8:53 am
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--- Quote from: runninghorse link ---
>
> Shall I just state “the alleged contravention did not occur”?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, don't forget to take a times / dated screenshot of the
confirmation page.
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