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#Post#: 4645--------------------------------------------------
Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke Newington
Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: Norman83
Date: September 8, 2023, 12:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi - I just found out that I had received a PCN from Hackney
Council for '52m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain
types of vehicle (motor vehicles)'
I'm from Bristol, was driving to a job in Stoke Newington and
was actually looking for a way to get into Bouverie road, which
has a no-entry camera (probably a LTN thing). It's super
annoying to get this when I was already trying to find a way
into the road which wouldn't involved getting caught by a
camera.
See here for the PCN images
HTML https://imgur.com/a/sITbKIF
To view images, go here:
HTML https://hackney.gov.uk/menu/#parking-and-transport
PCN no. QZ14186291
Reg. CP12 ZGV
The video does not play for some reason.
The PCN was issued to my previous address - only found out about
this as a friend now lives at that address.
It's likely a case of having updated my driving license, but not
updated the V5C.
I have now updated V5C as of today.
Please can I have some advice on appealing the PCN?
- How possible is it to appeal given I don't live in London, and
unfamiliar with this unclear and draconian driving penalties?
- OR is it possible to appeal to pay the £65 reduced fee, given
that the PCN was not received until it was past the 14 day
window.
The sum is currently set to £195 which is a punishment that far
outweighs any wrongdoing.
many thanks
#Post#: 4659--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 8, 2023, 6:21 pm
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As the amount outstanding is £195, it means the Charge
Certificate stage has been reached because no response has been
received by the council (payment or challenge), within the 28
days allowed on the PCN.
You cannot challenge this, only pay it, but DONT PAY IT !! - see
below.....
After the period for payment of the CC has expired, the council
must register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC).
They then must send out an Order for Recovery. This adds £9 to
the £195. However, at this stage, you can submit a Witness
Statement (TEC form TE9), stating that you didn't receive the
PCN. TEC will then cancel the CC and the matter reverts back to
the PCN.
When filling in the form, the "Applicant" is the council, not
you. You are the "Respondent".
You only have a limited time to submit the TE9, after the Order
for Recovery is issued. This will be sent to same address as
used for the PCN and the CC. However, you can contact TEC,
quoting the PCN Number to find out if the debt has been
registered. You don't have to have the OfR in your hand before
submitting the TE9.
Once the matter is reverted to the PCN you can pay or challenge
it.
#Post#: 4742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 10, 2023, 8:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Norman83 link ---
>
> - How possible is it to appeal given I don't live in London,
and unfamiliar with this unclear and draconian driving
penalties?
>
--- End Quote ---
For one thing you don't have to worry about that.
Representations to the council are all done online, and any
tribunal hearing can be attended by telephone. If we feel you
have a viable case, one of us will normally offer to represent
you at the tribunal hearing (either by phone or those of us who
live in London might just go to the hearing centre).
Here's the video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge1WmSHEGB4
You'll see the money from the penalties being put to good use
with some nice woke rainbows on the road surface.
The traffic order is The Hackney (Prescribed Routes and 20 Mph
Speed Limit) (Consolidation No.1) Order 2019
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1qxta3k5JXRrKGHir4-HKQpTpq2tlzVio<br
/>as amended by The Hackney (Prescribed Routes and 20 MPH Speed
Limit) (Amendment No.61) Order 2023
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1_f0P_8HK8uGNczmOUnNlRTGglDQcfHpv.
[member=12]Incandescent[/member] has explained the procedure you
need to follow however he's referenced the wrong form, for a
London moving traffic contravention you need to use form PE3:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice
Once the amount due on
HTML https://parkingdisputes.hackney.gov.uk/pcnonline/
goes up to
£204 you know the debt has been registered with TEC, so at that
point you can file a statutory declaration. While you can print
the form yourself without waiting to receive one in the post,
you can't just sign it: you will need to sign it in front of a
court officer or a magistrates at your local county court or
magistrates' court, this is free but you will have to make an
appointment beforehand. Or any high-street solicitor can witness
the declaration for around £10.
Once you've made the declaration and it's been counter-signed by
whoever witnessed you make the declaration, scan it and email it
to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number in the subject line.
Come back here once you've done all that and we'll confirm what
the next steps are.
IMPORTANT: Please film the opening of the next two envelopes you
get from the council, this is because the Order for Recovery is
required to contain a copy of the original PCN. If we can prove
that a copy of the original PCN was not in the same envelope as
the Order for Recovery, that immediately provides a ground of
appeal.
If you have any questions, please ask.
#Post#: 4786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 10, 2023, 1:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Why can't TEC just fix on one form for everything, and the
applicant just crosses out the inapplicable bits I fail to see !
Sorry about my error !!
#Post#: 4822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 10, 2023, 6:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Why can't TEC just fix on one form for everything, and the
applicant just crosses out the inapplicable bits I fail to see !
>
--- End Quote ---
Can you imagine the volume of problems we'd have with people
crossing out the wrong bits? We'd have to have a whole sub-forum
just for that. The real solution would be for parliament to
allow a WS for everything, but it's hardly a high priority on
the legislative agenda.
#Post#: 4830--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 10, 2023, 6:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=506.msg4786#msg4786
date=1694370144]
> Why can't TEC just fix on one form for everything, and the
applicant just crosses out the inapplicable bits I fail to see !
>
--- End Quote ---
Can you imagine the volume of problems we'd have with people
crossing out the wrong bits? We'd have to have a whole sub-forum
just for that. The real solution would be for parliament to
allow a WS for everything, but it's hardly a high priority on
the legislative agenda.
[/quote]
I suppose so, but everything I see seems designed to obfuscate
and confuse the public.
#Post#: 4841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: Norman83
Date: September 11, 2023, 4:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you both for your responses - very useful information. I
had already sort of lost hope given that I had missed the appeal
deadline, so knowing more about the process is very helpful.
I will film the opening of any letters yet to arrive in case the
OfR doesn't contain the PCN (guess the fact that I've now
updated my V5C to the new address won't make any difference-
they will keep using the original address?)
I'll go ahead and start filling in the TE3 form.
Re. dates I may receive the OfR - having looked again at the
Hackney PCN detail (see here
HTML https://imgur.com/a/09laSG7)
it looks like this may be on or after 18th September? Or is this
unrelated to TEC's side of things?
thanks again.
#Post#: 4852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 11, 2023, 5:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The OfR is sent once the council has registered the debt with
TEC. So once the debt is registered with TEC you can fill in
form PE3 (not TE3), you don't need to wait for the physical OfR
to turn up. Once the debt has gone up to £204 the debt will be
registered with TEC, the council cannot increase the penalty
without doing the TEC registration first.
#Post#: 5195--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: Norman83
Date: September 15, 2023, 7:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi quick update - I'm filling out the PE3 form, and this is what
I've put in the appeal box.
I'm aware that this form is more for the fact that I didn't get
the PCN in time to make an appeal, but I thought it was worth
adding my appeal info for the original contravention.
I'm aware they may not give a damn about my reasons, but could
you give your thoughts on this please?
Anything that might help me with some kind of reasonable /
compassionate response to this unclear yet strictly enforced
traffic system.
thanks (sorry for the Caps - the form says I had to write in
caps)
I DID NOT RECEIVE THE PCN UNTIL AFTER THE 28 DAY APPEAL WINDOW
HAD PASSED. IT WAS SENT TO
MY OLD ADDRESS. I ONLY FOUND OUT ABOUT IT AFTER THE OWNER GOT IN
TOUCH TO SAY I HAD A
FEW LETTERS.
I HAVE SINCE FOUND OUT THAT EVEN THOUGH I UPDATED MY DRIVING
LICENCE TO MY NEW ADDRESS,
THE V5C HAD NOT BEEN UPDATED, AND THIS IS WHY IT WAS SENT TO MY
OLD ADDRESS. I’VE HEARD
THIS IS COMMON AND CATCHES A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT.
ON DISCOVERING THIS IMMEDIATELY WENT AND UPDATED MY V5C DETAILS
TO MY CURRENT ADDRESS.
ON THE DATE OF THE CONTRAVENTION, I DROVE FROM MY HOME IN
BRISTOL TO A JOB IN LONDON.
ON ARRIVAL I SAW THAT THERE WAS A SOME KIND OF ‘NO ENTRY TO
TRAFFIC’ SIGN TO
BOUVERIE ROAD, WHERE MY JOB WAS LOCATED.
SO TO AVOID THIS I DROVE DOWN STOKE NEWINGTON CHURCH STREET
TRYING TO FIND A ROUTE TO ENTER BOUVERIE ROAD FROM THE OTHER END
(GRAYLING ROAD). WHILST TRYING TO FIND THIS ROUTE I UNWITTINGLY
DROVE THROUGH THIS OTHER SIGN AND WAS CAUGHT ON THE CAMERA. THIS
MAKES ME FEEL THAT IN LONDON, AS A DRIVER ‘YOU JUST CAN’T WIN’
AND WILL INEVITABLY BE CAUGHT FOR SOMETHING.
SO ESSENTIALLY WHILST TRYING TO COMPLY WITH STRICTLY ENFORCED
YET UNCLEAR RULES IN AN UNFAMILIAR NEIGHBOURHOOD, I GOT CAUGHT
ANYWAY.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THIS IS JUSTIFIED PLEASE?
DESPITE FEELING LIKE I HAVE BEEN UNFAIRLY PUNISHED, I AM HAPPY
TO PAY THE £65 FEE ORIGINALLY REQUESTED AND JUST GET IT OVER
WITH.
PLEASE CAN YOU HELP ME TO GET TO THIS STAGE.
#Post#: 5196--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council - PCN for LTN 52m prohibition, Stoke
Newington Church St - Sent to old address
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 15, 2023, 7:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You do not need to put anything into the 'Reasons' box if the
submission is "in time". The SD is to get the process reset back
to the PCN stage, and anything about the reason for the
contravention is irrelevant. You are not appealing about the
contravention at this point.
YOu can get more info on submitting an in-time PE3 on this site
www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk
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