DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 59387--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: February 23, 2025, 8:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=Bergy10 link=topic=5057.msg59193#msg59193
date=1740153051]
> What if we response with representations using the "I am the
registered keeper" option with the representation text stating I
(my sibling) am not the driver, and to address the driver who is
so and so.
>
--- End Quote ---
Then your sibling will get a Notice of Rejection saying that
they are legally responsible for the penalty charge regardless
of who was driving, and liability cannot be transferred to the
driver. The starting point is that your sibling is legally
responsible for the PCN and as far as the law is concerned, that
is also the end of the matter.
Unfortunately this is a legal process and without an order from
the Court of Protection, you will really struggle to get the
council to accept that anyone can act on behalf of your sibling.
What sort of medical evidence do you have, could you get a
letter from the GP confirming that your sibling lacks mental
capacity?
[/quote]
[member=1]cp8759[/member], thank you for thw response. I have a
letter from the GP from some years ago stating my siblings
condition and the fact that our mother is communicating with the
GP on their behalf as they can not communicate themselves due to
the condition.
We also have the hire agreement which states that the hirer is
our mother with the disabled person being my sibling.
Can we use those? If not we have no problem proceeding as if the
appeal is coming from my sibling directly. The only stumbling
block will be if they will need to physically or virtually be in
attendance at any appeals or hearings or if they will need to
speak during the process as they do not have the capacity to
answer questions.
#Post#: 59419--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 23, 2025, 1:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=4387]Bergy10[/member] it is important to avoid
conflating the terms "appeal" and "representation", they are not
the same. At this stage there is no appeal, the only option is
to make a representation to the council. If that representation
is rejected, the next step would be an appeal to London
Tribunals.
At the tribunal stage I'm far less concerned because an
adjudicator would in all likelihood be willing to make a finding
of fact that your sibling does not have mental capacity and that
would enable your mother to act as their litigation friend.
However the council officers will be rather more robotic in
following a tick-box exercise which basically just says that
unless there's a signed authorisation from the person named on
the PCN, then the representations are invalid and that's the end
of that. For the purpose of making representations to the
council I would just word the representation as coming from your
sibling.
However I'm now confused by the hire agreement, if your mother
is the hirer why wouldn't the PCN be issued to her? Is this a
motability vehicle?
#Post#: 59427--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: February 23, 2025, 3:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
From post Reply#16
--- Quote ---
> Thank you for the response [member=1]cp8759[/member]. Well the
answer is both yes and no. The vehicle is a motability vehicle
and the registered keeper is my disabled sibling (who is unable
to make decisions). The notice came in their name, and I am
responsible for driving them to where they need to go. My
sibling will not be able to give a consent but our mother who is
the guardian, can.
>
--- End Quote ---
But also
--- Quote ---
> We also have the hire agreement which states that the hirer is
our mother with the disabled person being my sibling.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 59438--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: February 23, 2025, 7:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=4387]Bergy10[/member] it is important to avoid
conflating the terms "appeal" and "representation", they are not
the same. At this stage there is no appeal, the only option is
to make a representation to the council. If that representation
is rejected, the next step would be an appeal to London
Tribunals.
>
> At the tribunal stage I'm far less concerned because an
adjudicator would in all likelihood be willing to make a finding
of fact that your sibling does not have mental capacity and that
would enable your mother to act as their litigation friend.
>
> However the council officers will be rather more robotic in
following a tick-box exercise which basically just says that
unless there's a signed authorisation from the person named on
the PCN, then the representations are invalid and that's the end
of that. For the purpose of making representations to the
council I would just word the representation as coming from your
sibling.
>
> However I'm now confused by the hire agreement, if your mother
is the hirer why wouldn't the PCN be issued to her? Is this a
motability vehicle?
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree, I have conflated things but yes, I did mean
representations rather than appeal at this stage.
I also agree and think making the representations as coming from
my sibling without mentioning anything else would be best, if
that is allowable. If it is, then I think that is what I will do
if you think it will be more straightforward.
With regard to the hire agreement, it is a motability vehicle.
The contract itself says the hirer is our mother, with the
disabled person being my sibling. However every NTL we have ever
received has always been in my siblings name in the past despite
this. Maybe motability vehicles are addressed in that way by
council PCNs.
#Post#: 59439--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: February 23, 2025, 7:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> From post Reply#16
> [quote]Thank you for the response [member=1]cp8759[/member].
Well the answer is both yes and no. The vehicle is a motability
vehicle and the registered keeper is my disabled sibling (who is
unable to make decisions). The notice came in their name, and I
am responsible for driving them to where they need to go. My
sibling will not be able to give a consent but our mother who is
the guardian, can.
>
--- End Quote ---
But also
--- Quote ---
> We also have the hire agreement which states that the hirer is
our mother with the disabled person being my sibling.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Yes, it is contradictory, we are even confused why it's
happening that way as we received another PCN back in 2019 in
similar fashion. The contract is exactly how I explained however
they always send NTOs to my sibling so I assume they are the
owner in the eyes of the council.
#Post#: 77593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: June 22, 2025, 12:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1]cp8759[/member]
Hope all is well mate. Just an update. I have been looking out
for a letter and have not seen anything even though it's been
since February when we sent in reps.
I have gone onto the website and it still, just like it has when
we were sending the reps, shows as £130.
However when I look further I notice under key events it says
the following:
PCN events
Date
Description
22/05/2025 16:42
22/05/2025 16:42
22/05/2025 16:42
06/02/2025 06:00
So it seems they reset the discount period but did not inform us
as we have not received any letter.
One thing to note it that the car was motability and has since
been returned back at the end of March. So not sure if that has
any impact.
Not sure what to do now as we have nor received a letter, do not
know if it is with motability or the car manufacturer. What do
you advise as a next step? Thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 77615--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 22, 2025, 4:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=4387]Bergy10[/member] the discount is off the table so
the only sensible option is to appeal to London Tribunals, I'll
drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.
#Post#: 111460--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 28, 2026, 3:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Outcome
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o55j1upvKwIvns6kjMmAalbMUb7NtxVU/view.
#Post#: 111468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 28, 2026, 4:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good to see that LT continue to apply a "due diligence and
timeliness" test.
When one knows of the literally hundreds of millions of pounds
London councils receive from PCN penalties, it is obvious they
can well afford to have adequately staffed enforcement
departments.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 3
DIR Previous Page