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#Post#: 58526--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: February 17, 2025, 7:14 am
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[member=1]cp8759[/member],
It may be. I didn't notice it last time but maybe I just didn't
look as it came halfway down the road. I usually expwct theee
signs on bot sides of the road at the entry of where they are
referring to (which to be fair they are further down, only
facing the other direction).
#Post#: 58527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 17, 2025, 7:14 am
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[member=4387]Bergy10[/member] I recommend you go back and check,
and get us a photo.
#Post#: 58673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: February 18, 2025, 12:28 am
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[member=1]cp8759[/member] it is still there. Just took these
this morning. I never even noticed that sign being there. It's
placed weirdly behind that pole.
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/w9gEqH7.jpeg
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/KgK7xjR.jpeg
#Post#: 58785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 18, 2025, 1:57 pm
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That's a completely different sign to the one we dealt with
previously, but it is undoubtedly obscured by the pole. For now
I would just make a one line representation saying that the
alleged contravention did not occur.
#Post#: 59061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: February 20, 2025, 11:38 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> That's a completely different sign to the one we dealt with
previously, but it is undoubtedly obscured by the pole. For now
I would just make a one line representation saying that the
alleged contravention did not occur.
>
--- End Quote ---
So something along the lines of
Dear Brent Council,
I am making representations to this PCN as I do not believe that
the alleged contravention occurred.
Kind regards
Bergy10
Btw [member=1]cp8759[/member] does it matter that the notice was
sent to the person who the cat is registered to (who is not the
driver) rather than myself?
#Post#: 59119--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 20, 2025, 5:29 pm
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--- Quote from: Bergy10 link ---
>
> Btw [member=1]cp8759[/member] does it matter that the notice
was sent to the person who the cat is registered to (who is not
the driver) rather than myself?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well yes it does matter, that's why the PCN has this bold text:
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/ZowcMvF.png
So what you're saying is that the recipient of the notice
ignored that and passed it to you because you were the driver?
In that case you have two options:
1) Make representations in your own name but on their behalf,
supported by a written letter authorising you to act on their
behalf, or
2) Make representations (with their agreement) in their name, if
you do this via the council website they could never know the
difference and as long as this is done with the registered
keeper's knowledge and consent I don't see any issue with it.
If this goes to the tribunal however, the registered keeper will
need to provide a signed letter of authority.
Your draft is fine but personally I'd remove "I do not believe
that", otherwise you're almost inviting them to respond that
your belief is irrelevant / incorrect.
#Post#: 59139--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: February 21, 2025, 12:12 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=Bergy10 link=topic=5057.msg59061#msg59061
date=1740073086]
> Btw [member=1]cp8759[/member] does it matter that the notice
was sent to the person who the cat is registered to (who is not
the driver) rather than myself?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well yes it does matter, that's why the PCN has this bold text:
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/ZowcMvF.png
So what you're saying is that the recipient of the notice
ignored that and passed it to you because you were the driver?
In that case you have two options:
1) Make representations in your own name but on their behalf,
supported by a written letter authorising you to act on their
behalf, or
2) Make representations (with their agreement) in their name, if
you do this via the council website they could never know the
difference and as long as this is done with the registered
keeper's knowledge and consent I don't see any issue with it.
If this goes to the tribunal however, the registered keeper will
need to provide a signed letter of authority.
Your draft is fine but personally I'd remove "I do not believe
that", otherwise you're almost inviting them to respond that
your belief is irrelevant / incorrect.
[/quote]
Thank you for the response [member=1]cp8759[/member]. Well the
answer is both yes and no. The vehicle is a motability vehicle
and the registered keeper is my disabled sibling (who is unable
to make decisions). The notice came in their name, and I am
responsible for driving them to where they need to go. My
sibling will not be able to give a consent but our mother who is
the guardian, can.
By the way on the representations page it gives the following
options (attached as an image).
Should I not click the option that says I am "not the registered
keeper but was the driver at the time of the alleged
contravention"?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 59143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 21, 2025, 3:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bergy10 link ---
>
> Should I not click the option that says I am "not the
registered keeper but was the driver at the time of the alleged
contravention"?
>
--- End Quote ---
If you do that two things will likely happen:
1) You will get a letter saying you're an unauthorised third
party with no right to make representations, and
2) You sibling will be sent a letter saying representations have
been received by an unauthorised third party and the council
cannot consider them without their consent.
You say your mother is your sibling's guardian, has this been
formalised, for example with an order from the Court of
Protection? Or is there any other official document to show that
your sibling does not have mental capacity within the meaning of
the Mental Capacity Act 2005?
#Post#: 59193--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: Bergy10
Date: February 21, 2025, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=Bergy10 link=topic=5057.msg59139#msg59139
date=1740118367]
> Should I not click the option that says I am "not the
registered keeper but was the driver at the time of the alleged
contravention"?
>
--- End Quote ---
If you do that two things will likely happen:
1) You will get a letter saying you're an unauthorised third
party with no right to make representations, and
2) You sibling will be sent a letter saying representations have
been received by an unauthorised third party and the council
cannot consider them without their consent.
You say your mother is your sibling's guardian, has this been
formalised, for example with an order from the Court of
Protection? Or is there any other official document to show that
your sibling does not have mental capacity within the meaning of
the Mental Capacity Act 2005?
[/quote]
Ok I understand, thanks for that information
[member=1]cp8759[/member]. Would have made things very difficult
had I done that, indeed.
However there is nothing official from a solicitor or a court to
state our mother is the official guardian, but our mother makes
the appointments, speaks with the doctors and medical equipment
providers etc. I think brcause the condition is cerebral palsy,
the hospitals, GP and our local council (Barnet) understand this
and accept all communications from our mother regarding my
siblings care and wellbeing.
What if we response with representations using the "I am the
registered keeper" option with the representation text stating I
(my sibling) am not the driver, and to address the driver who is
so and so.
Otherwise if it is simpler, I can choose not to mention any of
this and just respond as if I am my sibling like in your
suggestion 2 in your earlier post.
#Post#: 59335--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN Code 53: Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 22, 2025, 11:56 am
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--- Quote from: Bergy10 link ---
>
> What if we response with representations using the "I am the
registered keeper" option with the representation text stating I
(my sibling) am not the driver, and to address the driver who is
so and so.
>
--- End Quote ---
Then your sibling will get a Notice of Rejection saying that
they are legally responsible for the penalty charge regardless
of who was driving, and liability cannot be transferred to the
driver. The starting point is that your sibling is legally
responsible for the PCN and as far as the law is concerned, that
is also the end of the matter.
Unfortunately this is a legal process and without an order from
the Court of Protection, you will really struggle to get the
council to accept that anyone can act on behalf of your sibling.
What sort of medical evidence do you have, could you get a
letter from the GP confirming that your sibling lacks mental
capacity?
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