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#Post#: 57405--------------------------------------------------
Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: Nik
Date: February 10, 2025, 6:11 am
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Hi, I recently got a PCN after picking up my disabled father
from family in an unfamiliar area. Apparently this road has been
flagged by the BBC as being a hotspot for PCNs (£1.8m per year
just from this road!) and the signage must be very unclear since
lots of drivers in front and behind me were using the bus lane
too and hadn’t realised. Looking at the google images, the signs
are so close to the actual bus lane, that by the time you see it
it’s likely too late to spot it, hence why the BBC article says
some drivers have resorted to reverse traffic when they have
realised, which is obviously dangerous. Also, on the night in
question when the weather was bad, unless the sign is adequately
lit it’s almost impossible to notice this. Can you please help
to avoid this PCN. Thanks in advance!! Please see evidence
below, and let me know if you need any further information.
PCN:
HTML https://share.icloud.com/photos/025lS7Cj06WdOVn8T80EnPdDg
PCN video:
HTML https://share.icloud.com/photos/0b0WVM1nWTmunkKpgyYLw-7bQ
Location:
51.60185 -0.28791
Photo:
HTML https://share.icloud.com/photos/0b1ui0jePnTsjvE4Nh_U67pmQ
#Post#: 57426--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 10, 2025, 7:17 am
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Ah, yes, that notorious "hardy annual", Camrose Avenue !
Advance sign: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/YwaLfLDF2H4q3WUz7
The lane allocations through this obstruction are not the usual
ones, where the wide lane is in the middle and the narrow lanes
are to left and right of it. So this may be the cause of
confusion. The signs are all there and seem to be correct.
However, this restriction has been here since 2008 (see GSV
view), and I don't think there have been many wins over the
years.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/uGuCeRJmLQTPS3AL8
You could try looking at the London Tribunals statutory register
to see what successful appeals there have been.
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
A total of 153 successful appeals since 1st Jan 2008. This one,
2100022073, wins on bad weather and inadequate camera evidence.
#Post#: 57446--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 10, 2025, 8:10 am
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Dear Harrow
I make these formal representations against PCN....
1. I did not see any signage as it was inclement weather.
2. The video does not show any upright sign allegedly passed and
does not prove the alleged cntravention.
In light of the above, please cancel the PCN
***********
We have won 3 out of 3 in the last 18 months. Be prepared for
the long game and I am happy to represent you.
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tvfF0CgEGSzUL-UFu-h7LDFgjL4R0-k6/view
And: 2240515018
And:
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1aXzA3M8jCbefIkv2Jfkbpbr6KYUV9vH5
#Post#: 58344--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: Nik
Date: February 16, 2025, 6:37 am
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Thanks so much @Incandescent!! Your images show the advanced
sign just highlights a width restriction and not a bus lane. The
bus lane itself is so small that by the time you see it (if you
see it) it’s too late to avoid it. Recent appeals allowed
include it being dark and not adequate lit.
#Post#: 58345--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: Nik
Date: February 16, 2025, 6:44 am
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Thanks so much [member=24]Hippocrates[/member]!! I’ve read those
cases and don’t completely understand all the points the
adjudicator has written, but I’ll write your points in my
appeal. Given some successful appeals have been allowed where
drivers have said the signs were noticed too late to manoeuvre
into the correct lane, is there any harm saying this or should I
stick to the statement that the signs weren’t seen at all by me?
That’s very kind of you to offer representing me. Please let me
know the process for this, otherwise I’ll pursue this myself
with your advice.
#Post#: 58348--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 16, 2025, 7:30 am
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@Nik Better if I represent you as the appeal will be fairly
technical, mostly to do with photographic evidence I suspect. In
the last three cases their evidence in this respect was
antediluvian and/or illegible to determine the dates. BTW: it is
a bus gate not a bus lane.
I would not elaborate upon anything else: keep it short and
simple and admit to nothing. My last client admitted he knew the
restriction and had done it before and was very fortunate to
win! I forgot the zip!
#Post#: 58374--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: Nik
Date: February 16, 2025, 10:40 am
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Okay, thanks. Is this your job and do you charge for this, or
are you just a very nice person experienced with this and
passionate about appealing PCNs? 😂 Presumably I don’t
need you to represent me unless it goes to a hearing? It looks
like you’re referring to an attachment but I can’t see this?
#Post#: 58421--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 16, 2025, 3:13 pm
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--- Quote from: Nik link ---
>
> Okay, thanks. Is this your job and do you charge for this, or
are you just a very nice person experienced with this and
passionate about appealing PCNs? 😂 Presumably I don’t
need you to represent me unless it goes to a hearing? It looks
like you’re referring to an attachment but I can’t see this?
>
--- End Quote ---
This is my purpose in life. Most people agree I am a nice person
save for councils. Que attachment?
All I ask is for you to sign my petition. ;D
#Post#: 58436--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 16, 2025, 4:55 pm
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Not many contributors on here are so heroic as Mr Hippocrates,
but two others need mentioning that do offer to act as
representatives, Mr Mustard, and, of course, our esteemed
administrator, CP8759. All of these charge no fees, so act as
the lawyers say, pro bono, but may well ask for a charitable
contribution after a win, or some travel expenses. However,
you'd have to ask them. As most adjudications nowadays are
phone or (at the TPT) videos as well, there is no travel.
Basically, like me, they are all completely fed up with the
venality and rapacity of councils and Transport for London who
are ruthlessly enforcing things that really have no traffic
management benefit whatsoever, but they get the money rolling
in. No doubt the heads of departments involved get substantial
bonuses every year too. It's been like this since 1991, so I
doubt it's going to be reformed any time soon.
#Post#: 58444--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue PCN 33E
DIR By: Nik
Date: February 16, 2025, 6:39 pm
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Sorry, my mistake, as I thought you referred to a file
[member=24]Hippocrates[/member]. Sounds like a great purpose,
and you’re doing a great job, so happy to sign any petition
haha. I couldn’t agree with your points more
[member=12]Incandescent[/member]. Thank you again to you both
and keep up the great work!
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