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#Post#: 57255--------------------------------------------------
Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: juicymarbel
Date: February 9, 2025, 4:22 am
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Hi All,
Parked at southgate after seeing there is 60 minutes for free,
eneded up in McDonalds.
Did not go into Starbucks at all.
Time "over stayed" less than 30 minutes.
Can this be tackled? I know there are loads of threads out there
about this but cases vary.
I have NOT contacted MET yet, only evidence is the 2 photos of
car coming in and out.
Help? :)
HTML https://i.imgur.com/wHMITXB.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/y96xme6.jpeg
#Post#: 57260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: b789
Date: February 9, 2025, 4:37 am
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Thesis easily dealt with and no one pays a penny to the scammer
at MET. However, before you get free advice, please repost the
Notice to Keeper leaving ALL dates and times visible.
#Post#: 57263--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: juicymarbel
Date: February 9, 2025, 4:53 am
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Sure here it is -
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Jt0Hdlj.jpeg
#Post#: 57302--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: b789
Date: February 9, 2025, 12:10 pm
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Thank you. For now, simply appeal only as the Keeper with the
following:
--- Quote ---
> I am the registered keeper. MET cannot hold a registered
keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is
under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, MET will
be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because
Stansted Airport is not 'relevant land'.
>
> If Stansted Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable
under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift
and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not
pleaded, it is also not legally possible because MET is not the
Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never
attempts to be a penalty. It is created for MET's own profit (as
opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and
MET has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the
driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
MET have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 57311--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: juicymarbel
Date: February 9, 2025, 1:36 pm
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Thanks for a quick reply, do we know how effective this is?
My biggest worry is to receive a letter of claim.
#Post#: 57342--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: February 9, 2025, 4:06 pm
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--- Quote from: juicymarbel link ---
>
> Thanks for a quick reply, do we know how effective this is?
>
--- End Quote ---
That rather depends on what you mean by 'effective'. If you mean
'will they accept the appeal?', then the answer is 'probably
not', because they don't make money from accepting appeals. But,
if/when they reject, they must provide a POPLA code, and an
appeal there yields a higher chance of success.
#Post#: 57377--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: b789
Date: February 10, 2025, 4:27 am
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Why would you worry about receiving an LoC?
#Post#: 57537--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: juicymarbel
Date: February 10, 2025, 4:56 pm
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Well, what happens after they reject the first appeal?
Regarding a LOC, I thought that could happen if the noticed is
ignored or they reject all appeals? Doesn't this complicate the
process? Do correct me if im wrong.
#Post#: 57539--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: February 10, 2025, 5:02 pm
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--- Quote from: juicymarbel link ---
>
> Well, what happens after they reject the first appeal?
>
--- End Quote ---
What I outlined in reply #5:
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> if/when they reject, they must provide a POPLA code, and an
appeal there yields a higher chance of success.
>
--- End Quote ---
An abridged version of the process is:
- Initial appeal. If accepted, charge cancelled. If rejected,
step 2:
- Appeal to POPLA. If accepted, charge cancelled. If rejected,
step 3
- Debt collector letters. These can be ignored, as debt
collectors are powerless to do anything other than send letters
- Letter of Claim, followed by a claim in the County Court
Most of these companies use legal companies that churn out tens
of thousands of claims each year. The vast majority of people
who receive a claim pay up. When someone actually defends their
position, said legal firms often back down and discontinue. On
the rare occasions they don't, the claims they issue are often
shoddy, leaving them open to being struck out. Even if that
doesn't happen, you would seem to have the makings of a defence
anyway, for the reasons b789 has already pointed out with his
suggested appeal.
#Post#: 57563--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stansted - MET Southgate Park Starbucks
DIR By: b789
Date: February 11, 2025, 4:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just to clarify for the OP and anyone else who gets to read
this, here are the steps that should normally be taken when
disputing a PCN issued by an unregulated private parking
company. It outlines the four plans and why, if you follow the
advice we provide, you cannot get a CCJ recored on your credit
file.
Unfortunately, far too many people out there have absolutely no
idea of the process that has to be gone through to actually have
a CCJ recorded on their credit file with many, gullibly
believing that just because they receive a letter from a useless
Debt Recover Agent (DRA), a debt collector, that their credit
record is somehow damaged.
If our advice is followed and in the extremely unlikely event
that nothing goes your way and you lose a claim in the county
court, you still cannot get a CCJ recorded unless you fail to
pay the judgment amount in full within a calendar month. A CCJ,
if paid in full within a month of judgment is completely
expunged from the record as though it never existed.
So, for reference:
--- Quote ---
> If you receive a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by an
unregulated private parking company and dispute it, there are
four main ways to fight it before it ever gets to the stage of a
County Court Judgment (CCJ).
>
> Plan A – Complain to the Landowner (Best Chance to Get It
Cancelled Early)
>
> Before doing anything else, try to get the landowner (or
whoever hired the parking company) to cancel the charge.
Supermarkets, shopping centres, and hospitals often have the
power to cancel tickets if you were a genuine customer or had a
valid reason. If this works, the problem ends here.
>
> If that fails, move on to Plan B.
>
> Plan B – Appeal to the Parking Company
>
> You can send an appeal directly to the parking company,
explaining why the charge is unfair. However, since these
companies make money from issuing tickets, they usually reject
appeals with a generic response. If they refuse to cancel, they
must give you details of the next stage of appeal.
>
> This leads to Plan C.
>
> Plan C – Appeal to an 'Independent' Appeals Service
>
> Most private parking companies belong to one of two trade
bodies:
>
> [indent]• BPA members use POPLA (Parking on Private Land
Appeals)
> • IPC members use IAS (Independent Appeals Service)[/indent]
>
> POPLA sometimes rules in favour of motorists, but IAS rarely
does. These appeal services are supposedly meant to be neutral,
but they often side with the parking company who are their
paymasters and definitely anything but 'independent'. If they
reject your appeal, their decisions are not binding on you and
the parking company may start chasing you for payment.
>
> At this point, they will send letters from debt collectors,
but these companies are powerless – they cannot take you to
court. They can only send you worthless bits of paper which you
must ignore. The debt collectors are not a party to the contract
allegedly breached by the driver and are powerless to do
anything but try and scare the gullible into paying out of
ignorance and fear.
>
> If the parking company is still saying that you owe them
money, the final stage is Plan D.
>
> Plan D – County Court (The Ultimate Dispute Resolution
Service)
>
> If the parking company is seriously greedy and really wants
your money, they may send a Letter Before Claim (LBC), warning
that they might take you to court. This is the first step in the
litigation process. They hope that you are low-hanging fruit on
the gullible tree and will capitulate and pay up at the first
sign of litigation.
>
> You have 30 days to explain why you dispute the charge. If you
don’t respond or they disagree, they might file a county court
claim against you. The vast majority of these disputes are
handled by a small group of bulk litigation firms, all of them
staffed by stunningly incompetent wannabe legals. However, most
people are not aware of this and are intimidated enough to
capitulate at this stage.
>
> Those that capitulate and pay up at this stage of the process
are wasting their money. They will be paying an amount that
could not be legally claimed and would never be allowed if it
went all the way to a hearing with a judge.
>
> If/when they finally issue a court claim, you will receive an
N1SDT Claim Form from the Civil National Business Centre (CNBC)
which is the administrative centre for handling all county court
claims before they are processed and then passed to the
defendants local county court. You must respond within 14 days
or request extra time by submitting an Acknowledgement of
Service (AoS). You can either:
>
> [indent]• Defend the claim and argue why you don’t owe the
money
> • Settle the claim if you decide to pay
> • Ignore it (not recommended – this can lead to an automatic
default judgment [CCJ] against you)[/indent]
>
> If you defend the claim, there is another process that you
have to go through before it ever gets to a hearing in front of
a judge. The claimant has to acknowledge the claim and confirm
whether they intend to proceed. You will then have to complete a
Directions Questionnaire (DQ) which is for administrative
purposes and lets the CNBC know which is your local county court
and any dates you would not be available for a hearing in the
next 6 months. You then have to "attend" a telephone mediation
call which is not part of the judicial process as no judge or
solicitor is involved but you simply offer £0 and it is over in
minutes.
>
> After this, the claim is assigned to your local count court
(in a civil debt dispute where an individual is being sued by a
company, the hearing is always assigned to the individuals local
court, not the businesses) and a 'procedural judge' at the local
county court will check the claim and either strike the claim
out if there are any procedural errors made by the claimant or
may order that the claimant submit further or more detailed
Particulars of Claim (PoC) or schedule a hearing date.
>
> In the majority of cases that are not dismissed or struck out
before the hearing date, the claimant will have to pay a hearing
fee. It is at this stage that most of these claims are then
discontinued by the claimant. They will have been hanging on up
to this point hoping that the defendant will capitulate and pay
up out of ignorance and fear.
>
> In the unlikely event that the claim goes all the way to a
hearing, you would have to submit a Witness Statement (WS) that
basically fleshes out your defence. The claim is heard by the
judge and a decision is made as to whether you owe the parking
company a debt or not. Costs are fixed as this is the small
claims track and the fake added charges that the parking
companies have tried to claim for are not usually allowed.
>
> In most cases where the claim is actually tried at a hearing
and lost, the amount the judge awards is less than the original
claim amount. A typical single PCN claim that is lost in court
will amount to around £200 all in.
>
> If you win, you pay nothing. If you lose, you must pay the
amount ordered by the court. Even at this stage, if it ever got
this far, you would still not have a "CCJ" on your credit file.
>
> When Does a CCJ Get Recorded?
>
> A CCJ (County Court Judgment) is only recorded on your credit
file if:
>
> [indent]• You lose in court, AND
> • You don’t pay the full amount within 30 days.[/indent]
>
> If you pay the fill amount within 30 days, the CCJ is
expunged, and it won’t affect or harm your credit. But if you
ignore it or don't pay it in full within 30 days, the CCJ will
be recorded and stay on your credit file for six years, making
it almost impossible to get loans, mortgages, or even mobile
phone contracts.
>
> Summary
>
> [indent]Plan A: Try to get the landowner to cancel the PCN.
> Plan B: Appeal to the parking company (low chance of success).
> Plan C: Appeal to an ‘independent’ appeals service (often
biased).
> Plan D: If all else fails, the parking company might take you
to court.[/indent]
>
> A CCJ only happens if you go through the process and lose in
court AND don’t pay it in full within 30 days.
--- End Quote ---
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