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#Post#: 4586--------------------------------------------------
Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: mooney11
Date: September 7, 2023, 2:06 pm
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Hi,
Last year I had four offences against me, none of which I was
aware of due to having not updated my v5C when moving house. The
first two of those offences ultimately resulted in a 6-month
totting ban for two s127 convictions. That ban ended two days
ago. The other two offences were eventually endorsed onto my
licence in June & July (whilst I was serving the ban), though
the offences themselves took place several months before the ban
for the s127 convictions came into force. The chronology of
events is a total mess! My question...
I understand that when a ban has been served, all points on that
licence are wiped along with it. However, the 6 points from the
two offences finally endorsed this summer presently remain on
the licence. Is this an error (or maybe even just something that
has yet to be updated), or are points endorsed onto a licence
whilst that licence is disqualified treated differently (not
wiped)? I cannot find an answer to that online elsewhere.
Many thanks
#Post#: 4591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: September 7, 2023, 3:37 pm
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Trying to follow your narrative already being familiar with your
thread on PePiPoo is difficult enough. For anyone walking into
this thread cold, I would suggest it would be nigh on
impossible.
Short answer - a totting up ban wipes the points already on your
licence (that lead up to the totting up ban). Any points earned
after the ban started were not already on your licence when the
ban started - which was almost certainly explained to you in
your PePiPoo thread.
#Post#: 4594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: mooney11
Date: September 7, 2023, 4:15 pm
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Thank you for the information. No, I had not been told this on
the other forum (and I had not asked this in any case), and
didn't wish to revive a convoluted thread for one question given
most of te info in that thread is now redundant anyway.
At some point when the s127 charges are dropped and the
underlying offences are endorsed, that will be another 6 points
onto the licence. I was told that any ban time already served
would be deducted from the total when I 're-tot'. Is that
definitely the case? Having now already served 6 months I
assume/bloody well hope(!) that there is no further ban. When I
sought an answer to that previously, I was asking under a
different set of assumptions (no reason to re-hash them here).
#Post#: 4605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: tonys
Date: September 8, 2023, 2:45 am
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--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
> Short answer - a totting up ban wipes the points already on
your licence (that lead up to the totting up ban). Any points
earned after the ban started were not already on your licence
when the ban started - which was almost certainly explained to
you in your PePiPoo thread.
--- End Quote ---
Are points "earned" on date of offence, date of conviction, or
the date they actually sppear on the licence? In this case the
offence dates were before the ban started, conviction date
after.
#Post#: 4610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: September 8, 2023, 3:13 am
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Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, Section 45A(3) says:
--- Quote ---
> An endorsement ordered on a person's conviction of an offence
remains effective (subject to subsections (4) and (5) below)—
>
> (a) if an order is made for the disqualification of the
offender, until four years have elapsed since the conviction,
and
>
> (b) if no such order is made, until either—
>
> (i) four years have elapsed since the commission of the
offence, or
>
> (ii) an order is made for the disqualification of the offender
under section 35 of this Act.
--- End Quote ---
The points must have been endorsed prior to disqualification.
#Post#: 4611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: mooney11
Date: September 8, 2023, 3:39 am
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--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, Section 45A(3) says:
>
> [quote]An endorsement ordered on a person's conviction of an
offence remains effective (subject to subsections (4) and (5)
below)—
>
> (a) if an order is made for the disqualification of the
offender, until four years have elapsed since the conviction,
and
>
> (b) if no such order is made, until either—
>
> (i) four years have elapsed since the commission of the
offence, or
>
> (ii) an order is made for the disqualification of the offender
under section 35 of this Act.
--- End Quote ---
The points must have been endorsed prior to disqualification.
[/quote]
Given then that 6 points were added whilst disqualified, and
another 6pts will be added once there's a trial date in which
the s127's will be "swapped" for the underlying offence after
having already served the ban, will this then be interpreted as
a new round of "totting" and a ban is back on the table?
Had everything happened in chronological order I fully
understand how I would not have "re-banned" etc, but given the
chronology of the endorsements etc is all over the place, will
this effect the outcome? Or, as before, will the ban served be
taken into account given that it was the result of convictions
that have been (will be) overturned/dropped?
Thanks, appreciate the help. I had hoped I was out of the woods
with all of this!
#Post#: 4670--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: mooney11
Date: September 9, 2023, 4:23 am
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So will I be facing another ban once the s127 convictions are
dropped/'swapped' and 6 more points applied to licence? Not
clear that previous advice still applies due to different
chronology/assumptions so urgently seeking clarity.
#Post#: 4671--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: September 9, 2023, 5:23 am
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Do you mean s 172?
#Post#: 4673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: mooney11
Date: September 9, 2023, 5:36 am
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As in singular? No, I had two offences in April & May last year
which I didn't know about (V5C!) and I was convicted without
knowing for each. Then in August & November two offences (again
that i didn't know about at the time, but learned of quick
enough to avoid further FtF issues), that were eventually
endorsed whilst I was disqualified.
#Post#: 4723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Points still on licence after a ban. Is this right?
DIR By: mooney11
Date: September 10, 2023, 6:11 am
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If anyone can tell me whether I'm facing another ban it would be
most appreciated. Here's a brief summary of events/current
standings:
1. 4 offences last year, knew about none of them (V5C!) and the
first two went to court in my absence & I was convicted in each
case for failing to name the driver, which meant 12 points & a
totting ban.
2. Found out about all four offences in late February this year
(the 3rd & 4th had not gone to court), and contacted Bath
Magistrates within 21 days regarding the two that had resulted
in FtN convictions in my absence (this is when I learned that I
was banned).
3. Driving ban for the two s127 convictions began 7th March 2023
and ended earlier this week, on the 6th Sept. I served the full
ban.
4. The 3rd & 4th offences were endorsed onto my licence over the
last few months, whilst disqualified; 3 points each for speeding
- and are on my licence now.
5. In July, after chasing for a response regarding my SD
referral regarding the first two FtN proceedings, I was finally
sent via email the SD forms & new SJPN's where I pleaded Not
Guilty to the FtN & underlying offences, stating I would be
willing to plead guilty to the underlying offences if the FtN
charges were dropped. I submitted these back via email. I remain
waiting to hear back with a trial date etc.
The result of that trial would put 6 points onto my licence from
the underlying offences that led to the two s127 convictions,
and that would put me back onto 12 points. Am I facing a ban
again, or would having served a 6 month ban for
convictions/charges that are dropped via the plea deal mean no
further ban?
Thanks
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