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#Post#: 56860--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: Wajeh63
Date: February 6, 2025, 6:55 am
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Thanks for explaining! Since I didn’t pass the sign on the left
and the right-side sign isn’t visible when turning, does this
mean the PCN was wrongly issued? If the council rejects my
appeal, would this argument be strong enough to win at the
Tribunal? Also, is there any other evidence I should collect to
strengthen my case?
#Post#: 56884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 6, 2025, 7:47 am
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Well Birmingham's evidence does not support this. I can't see
how you can look at the picture and come up with not passing the
sign if you did a U-turn in that road.
#Post#: 56892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: February 6, 2025, 7:55 am
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Is there no video?
#Post#: 56903--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 6, 2025, 8:23 am
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--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Is there no video?
>
--- End Quote ---
Nope. I don't think videos are taken for CAZ zones. The photos
they have are appalling, IMHO
#Post#: 57015--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: Wajeh63
Date: February 6, 2025, 4:33 pm
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I think the case is bit complex. So I have no choice rather to
pay them fine before the discount period is over. Otherwise it's
gonna affect my credit history.
#Post#: 57024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 6, 2025, 6:05 pm
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--- Quote from: Wajeh63 link ---
>
> I think the case is bit complex. So I have no choice rather to
pay them fine before the discount period is over. Otherwise it's
gonna affect my credit history.
>
--- End Quote ---
So what makes this case complex ? It is easy; you mistakenly
turned left, saw the CAZ sign, stopped then U-turned using the
triangular traffic island and rejoined your original route. At
no time did you enter the CAZ.
There is no possibility of any affect on your credit history;
put that out of your mind now. Of course councils will browbeat
you and intimidate you by saying they will take the matter to
the county court if you don't pay, but they are bluffing. There
is only ONE "court" that they HAVE to use called the Traffic
Enforcement Centre that is there to register PCN debts. It has
no court rooms or judges, and no CCJs result. A council can,
once a PCN debt is registered, instruct bailiffs to collect the
debt.
If you now take Birmingham to the adjudicators, as is your
absolute right in law, the PCN penalty is the maximum you are
liable to pay if you lose. If you do lose, and then fail to pay
after that, then the council can register the debt as above and
get bailiffs to collect it.
But it's your money so pay-up if you want to.
#Post#: 57037--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: Wajeh63
Date: February 7, 2025, 1:52 am
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Thanks for the clarification! Since I never actually entered the
CAZ, this should be a strong case for the Tribunal. Have there
been similar cases where people won? Also, do I need to request
any additional evidence from the council, like video footage, to
strengthen my argument? I have submitted representation what
else I can do on my behalf.
#Post#: 57106--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: peodude
Date: February 7, 2025, 10:24 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=stamfordman link=topic=4995.msg56855#msg56855
date=1738843563]
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=4995.msg56853#msg56853
date=1738843289]
> If it were me, I'd take them to the tribunal, because on your
evidence you did not pass the sign on the left, but turned round
via the triangular island. For me, this means the contravention
did not occcur, but it's your money so if you decide to pay the
discount, I understand.
>
--- End Quote ---
?? The picture shows the OP leaving the zone having presumably
passed the entrance signs.
[/quote]
No it doesn't. Look at the Google Street View of the location.
OP says he turned into the street, saw the sign, and then turned
round using the triangular traffic island, so at no time did he
pass the sign on the left. The sign on the right cannot be seen
by drivers turning left into the street.
[/quote]
That's not true. Look at the council picture provided, the OP's
car is adjacent to the pedestrian dropped kerb, and, from Google
Street View it shows that the sign is before the crossing when
entering the road, so therefore they must have passed the sign.
That's not to say they may have a de minimus case though, but,
as Birmingham don't reoffer the discount, it's a gamble.
OP, don't expect a quick reply to your appeal. In my experience
it takes at least a month to receive a response.
#Post#: 57107--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 7, 2025, 10:36 am
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--- Quote from: peodude link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=4995.msg56856#msg56856
date=1738843792]
> [quote author=stamfordman link=topic=4995.msg56855#msg56855
date=1738843563]
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=4995.msg56853#msg56853
date=1738843289]
> If it were me, I'd take them to the tribunal, because on your
evidence you did not pass the sign on the left, but turned round
via the triangular island. For me, this means the contravention
did not occcur, but it's your money so if you decide to pay the
discount, I understand.
>
--- End Quote ---
?? The picture shows the OP leaving the zone having presumably
passed the entrance signs.
[/quote]
No it doesn't. Look at the Google Street View of the location.
OP says he turned into the street, saw the sign, and then turned
round using the triangular traffic island, so at no time did he
pass the sign on the left. The sign on the right cannot be seen
by drivers turning left into the street.
[/quote]
That's not true. Look at the council picture provided, the OP's
car is adjacent to the pedestrian dropped kerb, and, from Google
Street View it shows that the sign is before the crossing when
entering the road, so therefore they must have passed the sign.
That's not to say they may have a de minimus case though, but,
as Birmingham don't reoffer the discount, it's a gamble.
OP, don't expect a quick reply to your appeal. In my experience
it takes at least a month to receive a response.
[/quote]
Indeed there seems to be a bit of magical thinking here.
One update though - in this other current case Brum has
reoffered the discount on rejection:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/birmingham-caz-pcn/
#Post#: 57109--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: peodude
Date: February 7, 2025, 10:37 am
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Actually, looking at this thread,
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/birmingham-caz-pcn/
It appears Birmingham are now offering a discount in their
rejections.
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