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#Post#: 56760--------------------------------------------------
Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: Wajeh63
Date: February 5, 2025, 10:36 am
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Hi everyone,
I recently received a Clean Air Zone (CAZ) PCN from Birmingham
City Council, and I need advice on whether I can appeal.
PCN Number: KW34911563
Date of Offence: 12/01/2025
Location: Frank Street, Birmingham
Vehicle: Peugeot KU58 ZTG
What Happened:
I accidentally turned into Frank Street, but I immediately made
a U-turn at the roundabout and exited the same way. I did not
continue deeper into the CAZ, yet I still received a fine.
My Evidence:
Google Timeline Screenshot showing my U-turn at the roundabout.
I did not stop, park, or drive further into the CAZ.
My Questions:
1. Does my situation qualify for an appeal?
2. Does my PCN have any legal errors that could help me
challenge it?
3. Should I argue for leniency, or do I have a strong case for
cancellation?
I've already asked on Reddit, and they suggested I check with
FTLA for potential errors in the PCN. Any guidance would be
greatly appreciated.
Thankyou
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 56771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 5, 2025, 11:09 am
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Birmingham doesn't offer the discount on rejection so you need
to think carefully about challenging this.
Are you from out of town - what was the purpose of journey?
#Post#: 56789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: Wajeh63
Date: February 5, 2025, 12:41 pm
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Birmingham doesn't offer the discount on rejection so you need
to think carefully about challenging this.
>
> Are you from out of town - what was the purpose of journey?
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi
I was just passing through and I'm not from Birmingham. I didn't
realize I had entered the CAZ and made a U-turn immediately to
exit. I didn't drive further into the zone. Given that it was an
honest mistake, do you think I have a strong case for appeal?"
Or
Shal I just accept the fate and Pay PCN.
#Post#: 56813--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 5, 2025, 4:48 pm
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It all depends on whether you are prepared to risk the full PCN
penalty or not. If you are, then you have the absolute right in
law to submit representations to Birmingham, and then, if
rejected, to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
Here is the advance warning sign of the CAZ (Frank St)
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/18jH6xHEEdWKTeSd8
Here are the signs at entry into Frank St
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/sT87FnURBQhwrdD69
The right-hand sign is badly placed, (or has been turned round
after installation), because the only way to enter Frank St is
with a left turn, so the signage can be considered inadequate.
This view also shows inadequacy of signage on this very busy
ring road. You'd easily miss the advance sign, and turn in and
it would be dangerous to stop at the sign.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/uH2PPAqxoxqQS8D38
And it all happened at night and the signs are not lit.
You say you turned round at the roundabout, but I see no
roundabout and there is no video of your car passing any sign.
So did you really mean you turned at the triangular island as I
show here ? If so then there is no contravention at all.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/mWdvyQWYK7BqJYrs5
#Post#: 56831--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: Wajeh63
Date: February 6, 2025, 3:40 am
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Thank you for your detailed response! I really appreciate it. I
made a U-turn at Frank Street, Triangular Island which I believe
was before entering the actual CAZ. If that’s correct, does this
mean there was no contravention at all? Also, since the signs
were not lit at night, does that strengthen my appeal?"
(I accidentally turned into frank street and suddenly I realised
That CAZ I made U turn and turn exited the same way without
driving further or stopping anywhere.)
#Post#: 56842--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 6, 2025, 5:06 am
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Their evidence just shows you exiting the zone. I don't know if
they provide the video - where did you turn - partly in the
camera view maybe.
They must consider discretion if you explain what happened and
add what you were trying to do on your trip.
But the danger is if they reject the discount is gone but you
can appeal to the tribunal and they don't contest some cases.
But the tribunal if it does get heard can't consider mitigation.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Yc5WPwh.jpeg
#Post#: 56845--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: Wajeh63
Date: February 6, 2025, 5:30 am
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I've submitted the representation Online to Birmingham council.
I will wait until 13th day for their response. Otherwise, I'll
accept the fate and Pay them 60£. I'll be more careful next
time. What do u think?
#Post#: 56853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 6, 2025, 6:01 am
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--- Quote from: Wajeh63 link ---
>
> I've submitted the representation Online to Birmingham
council. I will wait until 13th day for their response.
Otherwise, I'll accept the fate and Pay them 60£. I'll be more
careful next time. What do u think?
>
--- End Quote ---
If it were me, I'd take them to the tribunal, because on your
evidence you did not pass the sign on the left, but turned round
via the triangular island. For me, this means the contravention
did not occcur, but it's your money so if you decide to pay the
discount, I understand.
#Post#: 56855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: February 6, 2025, 6:06 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> If it were me, I'd take them to the tribunal, because on your
evidence you did not pass the sign on the left, but turned round
via the triangular island. For me, this means the contravention
did not occcur, but it's your money so if you decide to pay the
discount, I understand.
>
--- End Quote ---
?? The picture shows the OP leaving the zone having presumably
passed the entrance signs.
#Post#: 56856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 6, 2025, 6:09 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=4995.msg56853#msg56853
date=1738843289]
> If it were me, I'd take them to the tribunal, because on your
evidence you did not pass the sign on the left, but turned round
via the triangular island. For me, this means the contravention
did not occcur, but it's your money so if you decide to pay the
discount, I understand.
>
--- End Quote ---
?? The picture shows the OP leaving the zone having presumably
passed the entrance signs.
[/quote]
No it doesn't. Look at the Google Street View of the location.
OP says he turned into the street, saw the sign, and then turned
round using the triangular traffic island, so at no time did he
pass the sign on the left. The sign on the right cannot be seen
by drivers turning left into the street.
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