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       #Post#: 56760--------------------------------------------------
       Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: Wajeh63
       Date: February 5, 2025, 10:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi everyone,
       I recently received a Clean Air Zone (CAZ) PCN from Birmingham
       City Council, and I need advice on whether I can appeal.
       PCN Number: KW34911563
       Date of Offence: 12/01/2025
       Location: Frank Street, Birmingham
       Vehicle: Peugeot KU58 ZTG
       What Happened:
       I accidentally turned into Frank Street, but I immediately made
       a U-turn at the roundabout and exited the same way. I did not
       continue deeper into the CAZ, yet I still received a fine.
       My Evidence:
       Google Timeline Screenshot showing my U-turn at the roundabout.
       I did not stop, park, or drive further into the CAZ.
       My Questions:
       1. Does my situation qualify for an appeal?
       2. Does my PCN have any legal errors that could help me
       challenge it?
       3. Should I argue for leniency, or do I have a strong case for
       cancellation?
       I've already asked on Reddit, and they suggested I check with
       FTLA for potential errors in the PCN. Any guidance would be
       greatly appreciated.
       Thankyou
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 56771--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: February 5, 2025, 11:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Birmingham doesn't offer the discount on rejection so you need
       to think carefully about challenging this.
       Are you from out of town - what was the purpose of journey?
       #Post#: 56789--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: Wajeh63
       Date: February 5, 2025, 12:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
       >
       > Birmingham doesn't offer the discount on rejection so you need
       to think carefully about challenging this.
       >
       > Are you from out of town - what was the purpose of journey?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Hi
       I was just passing through and I'm not from Birmingham. I didn't
       realize I had entered the CAZ and made a U-turn immediately to
       exit. I didn't drive further into the zone. Given that it was an
       honest mistake, do you think I have a strong case for appeal?"
       Or
       Shal I just accept the fate and Pay PCN.
       #Post#: 56813--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: February 5, 2025, 4:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It all depends on whether you are prepared to risk the full PCN
       penalty or not. If you are, then you have the absolute right in
       law to submit representations to Birmingham, and then, if
       rejected, to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
       Here is the advance warning sign of the CAZ (Frank St)
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/18jH6xHEEdWKTeSd8
       Here are the signs at entry into Frank St
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/sT87FnURBQhwrdD69
       The right-hand sign is badly placed, (or has been turned round
       after installation),  because the only way to enter Frank St is
       with a left turn, so the signage can be considered inadequate.
       This view also shows inadequacy of signage on this very busy
       ring road. You'd easily miss the advance sign, and turn in and
       it would be dangerous to stop at the sign.
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/uH2PPAqxoxqQS8D38
       And it all happened at night and the signs are not lit.
       You say you turned round at the roundabout, but I see no
       roundabout and there is no video of your car passing any sign.
       So did you really mean you turned at the triangular island as I
       show here ? If so then there is no contravention at all.
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/mWdvyQWYK7BqJYrs5
       #Post#: 56831--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: Wajeh63
       Date: February 6, 2025, 3:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you for your detailed response! I really appreciate it. I
       made a U-turn at Frank Street, Triangular Island which I believe
       was before entering the actual CAZ. If that’s correct, does this
       mean there was no contravention at all? Also, since the signs
       were not lit at night, does that strengthen my appeal?"
       (I accidentally turned into frank street and suddenly I realised
       That CAZ I made U turn and turn exited the same way without
       driving further or stopping anywhere.)
       #Post#: 56842--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: February 6, 2025, 5:06 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Their evidence just shows you exiting the zone. I don't know if
       they provide the video - where did you turn - partly in the
       camera view maybe.
       They must consider discretion if you explain what happened and
       add what you were trying to do on your trip.
       But the danger is if they reject the discount is gone but you
       can appeal to the tribunal and they don't contest some cases.
       But the tribunal if it does get heard can't consider mitigation.
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/Yc5WPwh.jpeg
       #Post#: 56845--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: Wajeh63
       Date: February 6, 2025, 5:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've submitted the representation Online to Birmingham council.
       I will wait until 13th day for their response. Otherwise, I'll
       accept the fate and Pay them 60£. I'll be more careful next
       time. What do u think?
       #Post#: 56853--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: February 6, 2025, 6:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Wajeh63 link ---
       >
       > I've submitted the representation Online to Birmingham
       council. I will wait until 13th day for their response.
       Otherwise, I'll accept the fate and Pay them 60£. I'll be more
       careful next time. What do u think?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       If it were me, I'd take them to the tribunal, because on your
       evidence you did not pass the sign on the left, but turned round
       via the triangular island. For me, this means the contravention
       did not occcur, but it's your money so if you decide to pay the
       discount, I understand.
       #Post#: 56855--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: February 6, 2025, 6:06 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > If it were me, I'd take them to the tribunal, because on your
       evidence you did not pass the sign on the left, but turned round
       via the triangular island. For me, this means the contravention
       did not occcur, but it's your money so if you decide to pay the
       discount, I understand.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       ?? The picture shows the OP leaving the zone having presumably
       passed the entrance signs.
       #Post#: 56856--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CAZ PCN - U-turn mistake, appeal advice needed
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: February 6, 2025, 6:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=4995.msg56853#msg56853
       date=1738843289]
       > If it were me, I'd take them to the tribunal, because on your
       evidence you did not pass the sign on the left, but turned round
       via the triangular island. For me, this means the contravention
       did not occcur, but it's your money so if you decide to pay the
       discount, I understand.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       ?? The picture shows the OP leaving the zone having presumably
       passed the entrance signs.
       [/quote]
       No it doesn't. Look at the Google Street View of the location.
       OP says he turned into the street, saw the sign, and then turned
       round using the triangular traffic island, so at no time did he
       pass the sign on the left. The sign on the right cannot be seen
       by drivers turning left into the street.
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