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#Post#: 56683--------------------------------------------------
SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: endorsementless
Date: February 4, 2025, 6:09 pm
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First off, thanks for running this site. Helpful to learn from
others.
On August 15, I was caught driving 26 MPH in a 20 MPH speed
limit. Received NIP in early September. Charges were contrary
sections 84 and 89(1) of RTRA 1984, and Schedule 2 of RTOA 1988.
Completed sections 1, 2, and 5 of NIP and returned to CPS by
mail. Provided driving licence details. Licence was a standard
UK one, issued by DVLA, so did not send licence or copy as
instructed in NIP. Paid fine online (acdp.met.police.uk). Didn't
hear anything so assumed that was sorted and should drive more
responsibly.
Now have received SJPN, five months after the incident. Witness
statement from Police Staff in SJP says that COFP was sent in
late September. It acknowledges Fixed Penalty was paid but that
I failed to provide licence details for electronic endorsement.
And it claims a refund was requested (although no refund has
been granted, which may have allowed me to catch this earlier).
A copy of the NIP that I sent to them for the offence (including
my licence) has been sent back to me with the SJP. The case is
no longer able to be viewed on acdp.met.police.uk to track my
history.
I have just under three weeks to respond. Obviously am guilty of
speeding but am concerned how it got this far, and that I may
also get costs/surcharge/higher fine as a result. The gaps
between NIP and SJP appears to be not infrequent of late,
judging by other similar posts on this forum (or even for
members of the press
HTML https://uk.news.yahoo.com/alan-rusbridger-complains-unfair-delays-082044673.html).<br
/>
I have a number of questions I hope might be simple for someone
more learned to answer:
- Where could I have failed to provide licence details?
- Would it not have been enough if they were provided and
accepted in the NIP response, and presumably as part of Fixed
Penalty payment?
- Assuming it's a clerking error, there's nevertheless
presumably no way to get this case sent back to Processing, that
I have no choice but to continue with the SJP for and
magistrate's ruling?
- I should obviously admit guilt, and should reference in the
mitigating circumstances the above context without appearing
entitled or unwilling to accept blame (despite my confusion in
how it wasn't concluded with the COFP)?
- Is there a courteous way to request sentencing at the fixed
penalty level since it should never have got this far, that I
did all in my power to reply swiftly and pay swiftly and take
responsibility swiftly? Or would pointing this out also be
entitled or inappropriate?
Thank you in advance.
#Post#: 56696--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: morris-man
Date: February 5, 2025, 3:36 am
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--- Quote from: endorsementless link ---
>
> Where could I have failed to provide licence details?
>
--- End Quote ---
Guess it would have been here "so did not send licence or copy
as instructed in NIP"
#Post#: 56703--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: Dave Green
Date: February 5, 2025, 4:30 am
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--- Quote from: morris-man link ---
>
> [quote author=endorsementless
link=topic=4989.msg56683#msg56683 date=1738714168]
> Where could I have failed to provide licence details?
>
--- End Quote ---
Guess it would have been here "so did not send licence or copy
as instructed in NIP"
[/quote]
I think that what they mean is that they did not send their
licence or a copy of their licence with the reply to the NIP,
but they did submit their licence details. This is what the
NIP's state that you are required to do.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/tgndcsyZ/nip.jpg
You also have to provide the licence details of the driver when
you are accepting the COFP and this is probably what the OP
failed to do.
#Post#: 56706--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: February 5, 2025, 4:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you need to submit your licence details twice - once when
responding to the NIP (or, more accurately, to the "request for
driver's details") and again when you accept the fixed penalty
offer. This is a common oversight and we see many cases on here
in the same vein.
There is no way to have his removed from the court process.
Although you suggest "it should not have got this far", when a
driver fails to meet the requirements of a fixed penalty offer,
there is no alternative but to prosecute him in court. The fixed
penalty process is quite well defined in law and there is
usually no time to extend any deadlines because prosecutions
must begin within six months of the offence date. They cannot
begin whilst fixed penalty offers are still "live".
You should respond to the SJPN by pleading guilty. In the
“mitigation” section you should explain what happened and
respectfully ask the court if they would consider fining you at
a level equivalent to the fixed penalty amount. They have this
guidance:
“Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for
reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as
administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender,
the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of
the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The
offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of
the penalty notice in these circumstances.”
Of course these difficulties were entirely of your own making.
But a kindly Single Justice may feel able to cut you some slack
and order you to pay just £100. Alternatively they may “split
the difference” and order you to pay £100 plus prosecution costs
(usually around £90). Otherwise you will be sentenced under the
normal guidelines which suggest half a week’s net income
(reduced by a third for your guilty plea), a “victim surcharge”
of 40% of that fine and the prosecution costs.
#Post#: 56709--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: endorsementless
Date: February 5, 2025, 5:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you all, very helpful, much appreciated.
#Post#: 56715--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: tonys
Date: February 5, 2025, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: endorsementless link ---
>
> On August 15, I was caught driving 26 MPH in a 20 MPH speed
limit. Received NIP in early September. Charges were contrary
sections 84 and 89(1) of RTRA 1984, and Schedule 2 of RTOA 1988.
>
> Completed sections 1, 2, and 5 of NIP and returned to CPS by
mail. Provided driving licence details. Licence was a standard
UK one, issued by DVLA, so did not send licence or copy as
instructed in NIP. Paid fine online (acdp.met.police.uk). Didn't
hear anything so assumed that was sorted and should drive more
responsibly.
--- End Quote ---
Did you receive two things? The NIP/Request for driver details.
Then a separate Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty sent only
after driver details had been received.
The way you recount it makes it sound like it was done in one
go.
#Post#: 56717--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: BertB
Date: February 5, 2025, 6:31 am
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Yes, he did two things. Returned the Nomination, received COFP
and paid online.
#Post#: 56718--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: FuzzyDuck
Date: February 5, 2025, 6:42 am
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Unless it was an Avon and Somerset "SuperNIP", assuming those
are still a thing.
#Post#: 56854--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: BertB
Date: February 6, 2025, 6:04 am
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I'm assuming it wasn't A&S
--- Quote ---
> Paid fine online (acdp.met.police.uk)
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 56882--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP despite paying FPN. "Failed to provide licence
details".
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: February 6, 2025, 7:46 am
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IIRC we had a similar case recently with the Met, where the OP
eventually indicated that the NIP included a COFP.
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