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#Post#: 56679--------------------------------------------------
52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: Mentimate
Date: February 4, 2025, 4:57 pm
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Hi all,
Received a PCN in the post. Lambeth.
Similar situation I've seen others post on here. 14 days to pay
reduced charge. Reduced charge period is different on the PCN
than on website. (13 days later on the the website).
I've seen the same scenario posted but nothing indicating in the
post if anybody actually won the appeal. Would be grateful if
anyone knows a way out of this that works. Either with the
appeal date or any other means. PCN says reduce charge is until
the 6th (website is later). Probably need to know by the 6th if
appeal is a long shot.
Thanks in advance. Image links below
Link to all 5 images (last image is the website image):
HTML https://imgur.com/a/52462Pr
HTML https://imgur.com/a/52462Pr
Individual image links below if link above doesn't work:
PCN (4 images):
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/13v3tmFphLnOuDjD3i1CIdPXXHs6GiNHH/view?usp=drive_link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/13v3tmFphLnOuDjD3i1CIdPXXHs6GiNHH/view?usp=drive_link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ep5nps73u97uaoLH7ffAMsje7exqeGt/view?usp=drive_link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ep5nps73u97uaoLH7ffAMsje7exqeGt/view?usp=drive_link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SVwhHkrx7mf2XhGNEF5nxZerrntg7D1Q/view?usp=drive_link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SVwhHkrx7mf2XhGNEF5nxZerrntg7D1Q/view?usp=drive_link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qFljKcli18z8GGBbcHd95wMEyjvTw-Jr/view?usp=drive_link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qFljKcli18z8GGBbcHd95wMEyjvTw-Jr/view?usp=drive_link
Website (image):
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/10PxX6dMsVD2RS69wzYP_A-JDRnC-0mFn/view?usp=drive_link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/10PxX6dMsVD2RS69wzYP_A-JDRnC-0mFn/view?usp=drive_link
#Post#: 56688--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 4, 2025, 7:40 pm
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Periods for payment under the LLA & TfL Act 2003 are from date
of PCN. So the discount period starts on the PCN date, of 23rd
January, and is 14 days, so how they make it expiring on
Wednesday 19th Feb is beyond me; surely that date is the end of
the 28 days when payment of the £130 must be made or
representations submitted ?
#Post#: 56794--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: Mentimate
Date: February 5, 2025, 1:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Periods for payment under the LLA & TfL Act 2003 are from date
of PCN. So the discount period starts on the PCN date, of 23rd
January, and is 14 days, so how they make it expiring on
Wednesday 19th Feb is beyond me; surely that date is the end of
the 28 days when payment of the £130 must be made or
representations submitted ?
>
--- End Quote ---
Maybe that's where they've mixed up. Do you know if there is any
room to appeal this? Whether it be these dates or something
else? I don't have much of an idea when it comes to this.
Thanks
#Post#: 56798--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 5, 2025, 2:54 pm
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Okay. No rush re 14 days discount etc. I will draft later as
just got back from Furnival Street. They have learnt nothing
from this:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/motorbike-52m-pcn-lambeth/msg41795/#msg41795
I was his representative.
#Post#: 56817--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: Mentimate
Date: February 5, 2025, 5:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Okay. No rush re 14 days discount etc. I will draft later as
just got back from Furnival Street. They have learnt nothing
from this:
>
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/motorbike-52m-pcn-lambeth/msg41795/#msg41795
>
> I was his representative.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for sharing. Very informative. I have to be honest to say
that sometimes these processes go over my head. I'm not even
sure what an LTO is.
Will the appeal mean I will have to attend the London Tribunal
in person? I assume I could successfully appeal by writing but
please let me know if this is not the case. Having to attend in
person could be an issue for me due to my schedule and other
things.
Thank you
#Post#: 56823--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: February 6, 2025, 1:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Our advice is never, ever, opt for a postal hearing on papers.
BUT, personal hearings may be face-to-face in person or by
telephone, and LT are currently moving towards video hearings.
See the process here:
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process
and
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appeals-process-explained
#Post#: 56852--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 6, 2025, 5:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Our advice is never, ever, opt for a postal hearing on papers.
>
> BUT, personal hearings may be face-to-face in person or by
telephone, and LT are currently moving towards video hearings.
>
> See the process here:
>
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process
> and
>
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appeals-process-explained
>
--- End Quote ---
+1
The Traffic Penalty Tribunal for cases outside London already
offer video hearings.
#Post#: 56861--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 6, 2025, 6:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Periods for payment under the LLA & TfL Act 2003 are from date
of PCN. So the discount period starts on the PCN date, of 23rd
January, and is 14 days, so how they make it expiring on
Wednesday 19th Feb is beyond me; surely that date is the end of
the 28 days when payment of the £130 must be made or
representations submitted ?
>
--- End Quote ---
14 days expires from the date of the PCN. So the next day is the
increase.
Draft:
I make this formal representation in terms of a collateral
challenge.
Ground: The penalty charge discount amount date as published on
your website does not coincide with the 14 day period on the PCN
Letter.
I refer you to the screenshot* which incorrectly states the date
when you are legally allowed to increase the penalty to £130.
*
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/10PxX6dMsVD2RS69wzYP_A-JDRnC-0mFn/view?usp=drive_link
Choose: contravention did not occur.
#Post#: 56908--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: Mentimate
Date: February 6, 2025, 8:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=4988.msg56688#msg56688
date=1738719612]
> Periods for payment under the LLA & TfL Act 2003 are from date
of PCN. So the discount period starts on the PCN date, of 23rd
January, and is 14 days, so how they make it expiring on
Wednesday 19th Feb is beyond me; surely that date is the end of
the 28 days when payment of the £130 must be made or
representations submitted ?
>
--- End Quote ---
14 days expires from the date of the PCN. So the next day is the
increase.
Draft:
I make this formal representation in terms of a collateral
challenge.
Ground: The penalty charge discount amount date as published on
your website does not coincide with the 14 day period on the PCN
Letter.
I refer you to the screenshot* which incorrectly states the date
when you are legally allowed to increase the penalty to £130.
*
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/10PxX6dMsVD2RS69wzYP_A-JDRnC-0mFn/view?usp=drive_link
Choose: contravention did not occur.
[/quote]
Thanks for this. 2 questions:
1. So this is likely to get rejected by Lambeth and then I take
the appeal and rejection to London Tribunal online site?
2. Are phone appeals always possible? If I have to attend in
person its very likely I will have turn down work that day (I'm
a freelancer) which wouldn't be worth the saving. I also live
out of London and that too is an expensive train ride. Going
there in person results to a bigger financial loss for me.
#Post#: 56911--------------------------------------------------
Re: 52 M Lambeth - Failing to comply with prohibition...
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: February 6, 2025, 8:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Our advice is never, ever, opt for a postal hearing on papers.
BUT, personal hearings may be face-to-face in person or by
telephone, and LT are currently moving towards video hearings.
See the process here:
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process
and
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appeals-process-explained
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