DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 56612--------------------------------------------------
481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: BenD
Date: February 4, 2025, 11:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Registered Keeper received a PC Reminder Notice when no original
notice was ever received. RK responded on 12/12. PUC issued
final demand on 23/12. RK issued another letter on 06/01. CUP
issued the attached notice pursue original charge on 09/01. RK
disputes it ever received any original letter and believes CUP
is confusing it with another notice e it issued to RK. How does
RK respond now, or does nothing?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 56623--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: b789
Date: February 4, 2025, 12:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The only document that we need to see is the original Notice to
Keeper (NtK) that you received.That is the one that is missing.
The reminders and final demands are useless to us. So, please
show the original (both sides) and make sure that all dates and
time are visible.
I note in their response to your initial appeal that you made
some reference to PoFA and they have confirmed that they are
not relying on PoFA to hold you liable as the Keeper. Does that
mean that you admitted to being the driver, inadvertently or
otherwise? Did you use language that dobs you in the mire as the
Keeper because of wording such as "I did this or that" instead
of referring to the driver in the third person such as "the
driver did this or that"?
They have several violations of the BPA/IPC Private Parking
Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP). Without having seen the
original (most important) NtK, but reading through their
response to your appeal, they admit that they did not send a
notice that complied with the requirements of PoFA to be able to
hold the Keeper liable. However, in their reminder notice, they
quite clearly say that they have the right to recover any unpaid
part of the parking charge from you, the Registered Keeper. That
is an outright lie and a breach of the law.
Before we can move forward with this, we need to see the
original NtK with all dates and times visible and, is possible
exactly what you put in your original appeal to CUP.
#Post#: 56642--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: BenD
Date: February 4, 2025, 1:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As I said there is no original NtK. Never received so cannot
attach. They CUP sent one in respect of another alleged
infringement. I took your advice on that one at the time and
wrote a letter along the lines you suggested. Adapting the
wording of that to this one i sent them the attached letter
which does not identify who was driving or anything else i
believe. There is only one page. I responded twice in largely
the same vein. The second page was just the signature.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 56647--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: b789
Date: February 4, 2025, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
For future reference, don't bother with "registered mail". All
you need to prove is that a letter was sent is a free
Certificate of Posting from any Post Office. Even better is
sending the letter as a PDF attachment to an email as that is
instant delivery and has proof too.
Your appeal is dated 6th January 2025, yet their response to
your appeal states that it was received on the 4th January 2025.
Any explanation for this discrepancy?
You mention in the letter that you "already responded" on 12th
December 2024. What was in that "response"?
#Post#: 56648--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: BenD
Date: February 4, 2025, 1:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My first letter of appeal was the 12th December correct. I
overwrote that when I sent the orher letter of 6th January in
largely the same wording.
#Post#: 56651--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: BenD
Date: February 4, 2025, 1:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Actually here is a copy of the original letter we sent back to
CUP on the 12th December pointing out that it was issued as a
reminder when that it is impossible when no original was ever
received.
As we had received another original NtK from them with a
different PCN no that you already advised us on last year, it
would have been impossible for me to miss it as I work from home
largely, (if indeed RM delivered it.)
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 56654--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: BenD
Date: February 4, 2025, 1:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The other original NtK issued under a separate PCN that you
already advised me on is now attached, front and back for your
reference, just in case that assists you.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 56705--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: b789
Date: February 5, 2025, 4:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OK. The first PCN was definitely not PoFA compliant. You say you
never received the original NtK for the second PCN. However, you
have already appealed it and even sent a second appeal.
We need to establish a timeline that makes sense before we
proceed.
5th November 2024: Date of alleged contravention
?? November 2024: Issue date of issue of original NtK (Possibly
8th November 2024)
9th December 2024: Issue date of first PCN reminder
12th December 2024: First appeal to CUP
23rd December 2024: Issue date of final demand notice
6th January 2025: Second appeal to CUP
9th January 2025: Date of CUP appeal response referring to
appeal received on 4th January 2025 stating that they are not
relying on PoFA
What date did your first appeal get delivered (signed for) to
CUP?
What date did your second appeal to CUP get delivered (signed
for) to CUP?
What is confusing me is the discrepancies about dates of appeal
receipts. Also, if the original NtK was "issued" on 8th November
for an alleged contravention on 5th November, then as far as
dates are concerned, they are PoFA compliant. We would have to
see the actual NtK to be able to see if there are any other
issues with PoFA compliance. However, their admission in the
appeal rejection that they are not relying on PoFA is damning
for them.
I suggest that you submit a formal complaint to CUP that you
never received the original NtK and that you require a copy of
that NtK and evidence of it having been sent either by way of a
"Proof of Posting Certificate" or a delivery receipt.
You still have a valid POPLA code for appealing until 9th
January, so just keep that in reserve for a day or two.
You send the following as a PDF attachment in an email to
info@cupenforcement.com and you CC in yourself. DO NOT use
registered mail to do this!!! by sending it by email you have
evidence of sending and receipt. PPSCoP section 11.3 requires
that a complaint must be acknowledged by the parking operator
within 14 days of its receipt:
--- Quote ---
> [Your Name]
> [Your Address]
> [City, Postcode]
>
> [Email Address]
>
> [Date]
>
> Close Unit Protection (C.U.P)
> Office 9, Dalton House
> 60 Windsor Avenue
> London
> SW19 2RR
>
> By email to: info@cupenforcement.com
>
> Subject: Formal Complaint – Request for Evidence of Notice to
Keeper (NtK) Sent by Post
>
> Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Reference: 34141
> Vehicle Registration: BN02 FUG
> Date of Alleged Contravention: 5th November 2024
> Location: 481 Green Lanes
>
> Dear CUP Enforcement Complaints Team,
>
> I am writing to formally raise a complaint regarding the
above-referenced Parking Charge Notice (PCN). I am the
Registered Keeper of the vehicle and did not receive any initial
Notice to Keeper (NtK) for this charge. I first became aware of
the PCN upon receipt of a reminder issued on 9th December 2024.
>
> In your appeal rejection letter dated 9th January 2025, you
confirmed that the PCN was issued as a Non-PoFA Notice and
referenced the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of
Practice (CoP) in this regard. However, I require CUP
Enforcement to provide specific evidence that the original NtK
was actually sent by post and not merely generated.
>
> The BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP),
section 8.1.2, explicitly states:
>
> [indent]“A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the
contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working
day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose,
‘working day’ means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a
public holiday in England and Wales.
> Therefore, parking operators must retain a record of the date
of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been
generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator
actually put it in the postal system.)”[/indent]
>
> Given that I never received the original NtK, I now formally
require CUP Enforcement to provide:
>
> [indent]1. A copy of the original NtK issued for this charge.
>
> 2. Documentary evidence confirming the actual date of posting,
including proof from any third-party mail provider (such as a
Mail Consolidator) that the NtK was physically placed into the
postal system.
>
> 3. A clear explanation of the method of postage used (e.g.
Royal Mail first-class, bulk mail, etc.).[/indent]
>
> Failure to provide satisfactory evidence that the NtK was
correctly posted and presumed delivered will be treated as a
fundamental failure of your processes and a breach of the
PPSCoP.
>
> I expect this formal complaint to be responded to within 14
days as mandated by the PPSCoP section 11.3. I will not hesitate
to escalate my complaint to the BPA. Additionally, I will bring
this to the attention of any relevant regulatory bodies
overseeing CUP Enforcement's conduct.
>
> Please treat this as a formal complaint under your complaints
procedure. I expect a response addressing the specific concerns
raised, rather than a generic reiteration of the parking charge
validity.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> [Your Full Name]
> Registered Keeper
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 56753--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: BenD
Date: February 5, 2025, 10:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Right. We received a PCN NtK 35325 on 04/12 . Notice dated
02/12, iro alleged contrvention 25/10.
RK sought your advice on this forum and wrote to CUP on 6th
December in accordance with your advice that they were out of
time. Copy below. They don't seem to be pursuing this anymore.
On 12/12 I received a PC Reminder Notice which we assumed
initially was iro 35325. When I looked at it more carefully I
saw that the PCN was #34141 , notice date 09/12 and alleged
contravention date was 05/11 .
I drafted a letter that day 12/12 and mailed it the next again
saying out of time and never received the original NtK. My
suspicion is/was that they cocked up the two PCNs and sent a
reminder in respect of the wrong one.
How can an alleged contravention of 05/11 have a PCN# 34141,
when the NtK for 35325 with an alleged contravention date of
25/10 , so almost 2 weeks after have generated a lower PCN no.
34141 ? It's doesn't make sense to me.
They never issued an original NOTICE TO Keeper dated 08/11 as
they claim. The fact that I have dealt with 35325 promptly and
diligently is good circumstantial evidence to show I wouldn't
have just sat on it if indeed I'd received it, surely.
They sent back a final demand dated 23/12 which i again
responded to on 06/01/25.
I am now going to pdf across the formal challenge you kindly
drafted and let's hope that that works. Thank you again
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 56758--------------------------------------------------
Re: 481 Green Lanes CUP Enforcement
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: February 5, 2025, 10:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BenD link ---
>
> How can an alleged contravention of 05/11 have a PCN# 34141,
when the NtK for 35325 with an alleged contravention date of
25/10 , so almost 2 weeks after have generated a lower PCN no.
34141 ? It's doesn't make sense to me.
>
--- End Quote ---
Don't get fixated on this as there's a good chance it's a red
herring - there's no guarantee that their reference numbers are
sequential (they've definitely issued more than 35,000 PCNs -
based on DVLA data they've issued over 40,000 just since 2022).
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 3
DIR Next Page